ahem - not clandestine nuclear warmongering genocidal idiots.

what purpose is served in asking a cucumber to discuss "good versus evil"? It is just a monumental pointless waste while giving the hatemonger an opportunity to broadcast his ideological sewage.

REVOLTING!

RE: "ahem - not clandestine nuclear warmongering genocidal idiots. "

Lol... ah so you oppose the invitation of ALL AMBITIOUS politicial leaders...

Thanks for clarifying.

Nite all

(try not to start a war til I get back...)

· "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

· "Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."

· "The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

· "If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled. As it has lost its raison d' tre, Israel will be annihilated."

· "Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed."

· "Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."

Irael as a nation was established by the authority of the UN. Israel is a legitamate nation, which is consistantly threatened by Iran's minature president (I like to call him mini-Hitler). If David Duke had spoken at CU, I suspect more of you would be outraged.

You guys scream 'WE LOVE GAYS! WE LOVE GAYS!", watch this video and find out why there are "no gays in Iran": http://www.breitbart.tv/html/5963.html

didn't watch the video...


but i happen to know personally many gay people living in Tehran and thriving....


it's about as safe to 'come out' there as it is in texas

or virginia

bl8ant,

Okay, so all the gay people on the video are all liars or paranoid. Thanks for clarifying that for us.

Two gay teenagers executed for the crime of "Homosexuality"
http://gayorbit.net/?p=2459

Iran Does Far Worse Than Ignore Gays, Critics Say
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297982,00.html

But I'm sure that your gratuitous assertion is absolutely spot on. All those gay men who were killed by Iran are probably just exaggerating.

To expand on the powerful concept of 'parables', and the intructive morals they have the potential of carrying, here is a form of parable that teaches me a useful moral to remain serene and sane in front of fellow humans of the likes of 'spider'. Nothing fundamentally wrong with such fellows, but how does one deal with people whom chose to ignore their delusions?!?!?

Here is the helpful parable:

"... Don't bother to try and teach a pig to sing. It is a hopeless waste of your time,
... and it frustrates the hell out of the pig!!!"

This parable is not taken from the Bible, but it is nonetheless a usefull and often pertinent parable when faced with fanaticism.

Given its fictitious nature, it would in no way litterally mean that 'spider' is a pig, or not even pigheaded as such. Of course that would be insane. A bit like taking parables from the Bible litterally!

But it does create a powerful imagery, which helps one deal with others whom appear to be 'pigheaded'. It leaves a sense of 'forgive and move-on' to an otherwise dark and hopeless tirade.

Let's walk through a concrete demonstration of this parable from the 3 posts between 'bl8ant' and 'spider' in this tread.

1) 'spider' posts his usual fanatical delusions in high pontificating form, starting with "... "Anybody who recognizes Israel..."

2) 'bl8ant' replies to 'spider's' fanaticism, with a counter point of view:
"... but i happen to know personally many gay people living in Tehran and thriving..."
... could be compared with attempting to teach someone to sing: seeing things from an another angle, standing out of one's sclerosed nature momentarily, and step into the singing side of reality, a sort of balanced state. It would have been useful for 'bl8ant' to remind herself of the parable here, given to whom she was addressing the message!!!

3) 'spider' replies to 'bl8ant's singing lesson with frustration, as the parable goes. Frustration which takes the form of juvenile sacarsm, and mixed-up, uninspired rethoric. At this point in our parable, this would be the 'pig' throwing a fit.

Can you you hear it?!?!?

Fanta, you're trying to preach to the choir, I pretty much said those things, except for the fact that I fundamentally disagree with you on all things, just on principle, except for when we agree of course.

Voil, your parable is trite and so cliche. It cuts both ways too. It can just as easily be said that Bl8ant also refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem for gays living in Iran. And it looks to me like Spider's opening statements you referenced were quotes, although he did not say who he was quoting. I think he should have been more clear about that.

As for gays in Iran, I have it on good authority that most of the mullahs there are in fact f-cking each other in their little den of mullahdom. Apparently this is a well known fact in Iran. One caveat, my source may in fact be relying on popular urban legends within Iran and invective as a source. However I suspect there may be some ring of truth in there or it would not be such a widely popularized opinion.

I think it may be a matter of killing the gays if they know about them and they are not mullahs. The sword cuts one way in the case where the mullahs are involved, as in all aspects of Iranian freedom and security.

Gratuitous Assertion - a charge with no foundation

A gratuitous assertion is a statement of fact, which is presented without evidence or argument. A gratuitous assertion can be a) gratuitously ignored or b) gratuitously denied (Nah uh! Yah huh! Nah uh! etc). bl8ant's statement of "it's about as safe to 'come out' there as it is in texas" is a typical gratuitous assertion. Her statement flys in the face of facts. I have provided a link to a documentary on the treatment of Homosexuals in Iran. There are pictures of people who were inprisoned, tortured and executed for being homosexual. To refute what I posted (seriously, that would be impossible, because the facts are on my side, but anyways...) you would have to show evidence that those people who made the claims against Iran were lying. As a side note, I think it's disgusting to trivialize the suffering of others, just so that you can feel like you "won" an argument. Homosexuals living in Iran are living in hell, where they can't kiss, hold hands or even admit to their relationship.

==============================================================

philosopher,

Sorry, those quotes were all quotes from the President of Iran. I assumed that anyone who is debating Current Events and the President of Iran would already know who the quotes were from. My bad.

==============================================================
voileazur said: "'spider' posts his usual fanatical delusions in high pontificating form"
==============================================================

voileazur,

You just insulted the president of Iran, those were all quotes from him. I love Israel and don't consider them criminals, muslim haters or anything else, that should have been a clue that I was quoting someone else. But I take full blame, I should have been specific about whom I was quoting. ...Speaking to you always makes me feel dirty, like I've allowed myself to be violated.

To 'dirty and violated spder',

In your usual manipulative, misguided, shorsighted and dihosnest ways, you have conveniently left ot your fanatical and delusional statement which the qotes were only there to garnish:

"... Irael as a nation was established by the authority of the UN. Israel is a legitamate nation, which is consistantly threatened by Iran's minature president (I like to call him mini-Hitler). If David Duke had spoken at CU, I suspect more of you would be outraged..."

The dangerous 'all right' - 'all wrong' perspective you have on most every topic you deal with is purely divisive and hostile in nature. That nature is one you seem to be strongly attached to. It is fanatical in its insistence, and delusional at its core for the lie it implies: life as seen through human character, is infinitly nuanced, and far from your delusional black and white fanatical lie.

Mirror work again 'spider'!!! Your comments again seem to have the opposite meaning to that which you intended:

It is very hard for a large number of us not to feel 'DIRTY' and 'VIOLATED' when in the presence of all your ill-intent mischaracterizations of the human spirit and character.

voileazur,

"Irael as a nation was established by the authority of the UN. Israel is a legitamate nation, which is consistantly threatened by Iran's minature president (I like to call him mini-Hitler). If David Duke had spoken at CU, I suspect more of you would be outraged. "

But that's true. What is a lie about it? I would love you to tell me. The only possible thing you could disagree with is "If David Duke had spoken at CU, I suspect more of you would be outraged" and that was presented as my opinion. So please, if you have a problem with what I said, tell me what it is and I can explain why you are wrong.

Way too late to prove me wrong 'spider',

Your 'knee-jerk' answer proves me right in spades. But I'm dissapointed, not surprised, but dissapointed.

Being right is futile and sclerosistic. Drop your 'speed reading' techniques, put your hostile emotions on pause, and reflect on the core part of my previous message. It starts with "... The dangerous 'all right' - 'all wrong' perspective..."

By the way, you pulled your 'dirty and violating' mischaracterization trick again...

I forgive you, ... again!!!

voileazur,

"By the way, you pulled your 'dirty and violating' mischaracterization trick again... "

That isn't a trick, that's how talking to you makes me feel. You are the king of the gratuitous assertion, you believe that every word you type is more important than the truth. You twist what I say and add statements that were never even implied. You consistantly ignore the facts and make character attacks, which you also refuse to provide any evidence of.

I asked you what about my statement you disagree with...obviously nothing. The UN established the nation of Israel, that is a fact. If you don't like that fact, there is nothing I can do for you, but there is no other side to that. What I said is absolutely correct.

You imply that I have been untruthful, but when asked what I lied about you refuse to answer. You just say you are disappointed by my post. I realize that on the Internet, character assasination and gratuitous assertions are believed to make one a good debater, but if we were behind podiums, I would win so easily it wouldn't be worth my time.

"Way too late to prove me wrong 'spider', "

Yes, I know. You did that yourself when you typed your post.

I'm done with this. What I said about homosexuals in Iran is true. There are no two sides to it. Homosexuals live in fear for their lives. What I said about Israel being founded by the UN is the truth. Please feel free to attack my character and make gratuituous assertions, I won't be responding to them.

Back on topic,

Not that it should matter from strict 'free speech' point of view,
... but when you claim the point below as if it were fact, and then automatically go on to establish your personal censorship on that alleged 'fact',
... have you spent any time checking and researching the accuracy of your statements?
On what specific facts do you base the general assertions you make below?

You asserted in your opening post:
''...I wouldn't invite him because he supports terrorism and is trying to develop nuclear weapons so he can continue to support terrorism with impunity. Just my opinion of course. What's yours?...''

I don't claim to support one side or the other. But I do not find such a bulk statement accurate or true at this point, nor do I find it helpful in better understanding this very hot topic.

Again, nuance and a minimum of rigor would help.

There is a lot of information on the subject, readily available to all. This situation hasn't just popped out of the closet. Go back to the early '50's as it relates to Iran nuclear developement initiatives, supported by non other than ... the US of A!!!

Yes the US strongly and insistently alleges that Iran is attempting to develop enriched uranium for military purposes. They've claimed similar unfounded WMD allegations on Iraq to justify a 'pre-emptive' war against that country.

But these are US allegations!!!
There is no proof whatsoever, in spite of full inspection compliance to back the fact that nothing justifies the US allegations thus far.

The US, not happy with those facts, has put intense pressure on the IAEA, to fault Iran on several technical faults, in order to impose UN sanctions on Iran, and thus gain supplier status of 'fuel cells' to Iran.

The topic is far from 'we good' - 'they bad'. Not as simple as the unfounded and crowd rousing WMD Iraq propaganda!!!

Anyhow. If you are up to it, this could bring an interesting alternative debating angle to the 'free speech' debate:
'what are the facts about the 'BEEFS' we have against Iran???

Sorry !!!

ABOVE POST TO OUR HOST 'PHILOSOPHER<

Spider this statement is not true.


"Israel as a nation was established by the authority of the UN."

Israel declared independence before the UN mandate creating two nations from an occupied land was passed. They were too petty to accept 70% of Palestine as the UN had proposed even though only 30% of the population of Palestine was Jewish. Notice I keep referring to this land as Palestine!! (It was Palestine even the British called it British controlled Palestine)

And besides it wasn't the UN's to give to them to begin with!

Fanta46,

"Israel declared independence before the UN mandate creating two nations from an occupied land was passed."

That's not true. The partition plan was approved on November 29, 1947 and Israel declared itself a nation on May 14, 1948, one day before the British Mandate expired. So Israel became a nation one day before the British officially lost control of the land, but the U.N. had already approved of the plan.

Israel was composed of 56% of the land, but more than 50% of that land was the Negev Desert, which was not suitable for farming or building. When Israel was founded, it was the same size and had the same borders as resolution 181 (the partition plan) required.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel