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| Topic: How Jesus Became G-d | |
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The likeness of Jesus in God's sight is the same as that of Adam. He created him from earth and then He said to him "Be!" and he was. It is the truth from your Lord, so do not be among the doubters. (Quran 3: 59-60) In these verses, God reveals that He created Prophet Adam and Prophet Jesus in a similar manner: Prophet Adam was created out of clay and had no ancestors, and Prophet Jesus had no father. Both of them were created through God's command of Be! This great truth, which leaves no room for doubt, makes it clear that both prophets were God's servants who, despite their exalted status, were still completely dependent upon Him to meet all of their needs. John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Jesus never was "created", only changed form and took the resemblance of a flesh walking person whom is named Jesus. |
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The likeness of Jesus in God's sight is the same as that of Adam. He created him from earth and then He said to him "Be!" and he was. It is the truth from your Lord, so do not be among the doubters. (Quran 3: 59-60) In these verses, God reveals that He created Prophet Adam and Prophet Jesus in a similar manner: Prophet Adam was created out of clay and had no ancestors, and Prophet Jesus had no father. Both of them were created through God's command of Be! This great truth, which leaves no room for doubt, makes it clear that both prophets were God's servants who, despite their exalted status, were still completely dependent upon Him to meet all of their needs. John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Jesus never was "created", only changed form and took the resemblance of a flesh walking person whom is named Jesus. Again a mistranslation- while Logos literally may mean "word", that is not its meaning in Greek philosophy, read Marcus Aurealis |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Fri 05/02/14 04:05 PM
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The likeness of Jesus in God's sight is the same as that of Adam. He created him from earth and then He said to him "Be!" and he was. It is the truth from your Lord, so do not be among the doubters. (Quran 3: 59-60) In these verses, God reveals that He created Prophet Adam and Prophet Jesus in a similar manner: Prophet Adam was created out of clay and had no ancestors, and Prophet Jesus had no father. Both of them were created through God's command of Be! This great truth, which leaves no room for doubt, makes it clear that both prophets were God's servants who, despite their exalted status, were still completely dependent upon Him to meet all of their needs. John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Jesus never was "created", only changed form and took the resemblance of a flesh walking person whom is named Jesus. Again a mistranslation- while Logos literally may mean "word", that is not its meaning in Greek philosophy, read Marcus Aurealis Other then quoting other's in miscontext, would you mind please elaborating on the original purpose of your post? And what does Marcus Aurealis' translation have to do within anything in specifics? Who's talking bout specifically anyone's particular translation. |
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The OP was a review of Bart Erlman's new book, How Jesus Became G-d. Erlman is one of the foremost New Testament scholars, I think he is a professor at UNC; he is a former born-again Xian, who lost his faith after studying the Bible (this is actually typical, for example, when the Pope ordered that the Bible be studied to combat Darwin, he ended up introducing the "Modernist" movement).
He reviews the history of how people thought about Jesus and how this thought evolved into Jesus becoming g-d. For example, in the 400s CE, most Xian bishops were Arian, ie- did not believe he was g-d. He also reviews how editors have edited and mistranslated the Bible to forward their agenda. For example, removing references to Joseph in order to discourage the idea of a human father. It is a fascinating historical review, as well as, a psychological study of why and how people think/believe. While, he does so in an historical sense, he also throws in an elegant theology on the original teachings of Jesus |
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The OP was a review of Bart Erlman's new book, How Jesus Became G-d. Erlman is one of the foremost New Testament scholars, I think he is a professor at UNC; he is a former born-again Xian, who lost his faith after studying the Bible (this is actually typical, for example, when the Pope ordered that the Bible be studied to combat Darwin, he ended up introducing the "Modernist" movement). He reviews the history of how people thought about Jesus and how this thought evolved into Jesus becoming g-d. For example, in the 400s CE, most Xian bishops were Arian, ie- did not believe he was g-d. He also reviews how editors have edited and mistranslated the Bible to forward their agenda. For example, removing references to Joseph in order to discourage the idea of a human father. It is a fascinating historical review, as well as, a psychological study of why and how people think/believe. While, he does so in an historical sense, he also throws in an elegant theology on the original teachings of Jesus Again, Jesus didn't "become God, he always has been and always will be God. John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Nothing changed from then to now or ever will along those scriptures. |
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Again, no one is questioning your faith, as by definition faith is belief in something that can not be proven. Erlman is reviewing how that faith came about and again by definition the lost of faith by attempting to prove it
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All who claim to be Christians agree there is only one true God. But how many individuals, "persons," or beings make up the Godhead? Does Deity consist of just one individual Being ("Jesus only"), or are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit three separate spirit beings, all possessing Deity? Is God a "Trinity"? Should we be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, or is baptism in the name of Jesus only?
The New Testament of the Bible in the Gospel of Mark, chapter 12 verse 32; The scribe said, ‘You are right, Teacher. You have said truly that there is one God. There is no other God but He. And in King James Version (KJV) Luke 18:18-19; 18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. We find in all Holy Books one God. God is one and there is none else. |
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Again, no one is questioning your faith, as by definition faith is belief in something that can not be proven. Erlman is reviewing how that faith came about and again by definition the lost of faith by attempting to prove it Faith isn't in something that can't be proven. Faith is believing that is absolutely without a doubt no questions can or can't be proven differently but in your heart you believe to be true. REGARDLESS if it is in religious beliefs and or any other thought. If it can not be proven 101 percent is it taken on faith weather you wish to believe it or not. Heck again after again after again for example purposes only you can not prove a man walked on the moon without external evidence that requires faith to believe in. And or any other numerous examples that could be used. Again all revolving around faith to believe in or not. |
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Reasons why Jesus is not God
Jesus is not all knowing: Mark 24: 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. God is all-knowing, Jesus fails this main qualification. The verse says ONLY the Father meaning nobody else, including the divine Jesus. Jesus never said I am God, but God says he is God: Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: The New Testament makes it very clear that Jesus is the son of man: Mat 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay [his] head. Jesus was GIVEN power and authority, he did not own it. God is all-powerful and is independent, he needs no help from anybody. However so this is not the case with Jesus, unlike God, Jesus needs help from God, unlike God, Jesus does not own any power or any authority, rather it is given to him from God. Jhn 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; John 17:6-8: 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that ALL THINGS whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. So, Jesus GIVEN everything he had! This all included miracle, doctrine etc. Basically Jesus did not do anything of his own, he never performed a miracle by his own power, he was given the miracle. He never taught anything of his own, rather he was taught by God and spoke what God told him to speak. Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me Jesus was sent to a specific nation only, not to mankind Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So Jesus was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel. His main duty was for them, not the gentiles or the world. Jesus denied being good in the sense that God is good. Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? The man calls Jesus good, Jesus tells the man there is non good but God. Obviously Jesus referred to God as someone else, which also proves Jesus isn’t God. Jesus could not save anyone from death Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; So Jesus cried to the one who could save him from death, this means Jesus could not save himself from death, therefore this also means Jesus cannot save anyone else from death. Jesus’ believers did NOT believe he was God neither Matthew Chapter 16;13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets So the believers out of the population did not take Jesus as God, they took him for a great man, such as John the Baptist, or Elias, or some others. None of them said he is God. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. Jesus asks his disciples about what they take him to be for, they respond by saying he is the SON OF GOD, Jesus agrees with them and tells them tell no man I am the Christ. So note, Jesus’ disciples do not say you are God, Jesus himself does not say he is God. Now both the son of God and the term Christ do not mean God. They never have, and never will. The term Christ means Messiah, the definition of Messiah is not God. Will you worship Jesus, or the one Jesus worshiped? Matthew 26:36. Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 44. So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, SAYING THE SAME THING. So are you going worship the one Jesus prayed to? Or are you going to worship Jesus? Logically you worship the one Jesus prayed to. |
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Reasons why Jesus is not God Jesus is not all knowing: Mark 24: 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. God is all-knowing, Jesus fails this main qualification. The verse says ONLY the Father meaning nobody else, including the divine Jesus. Jesus never said I am God, but God says he is God: Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: The New Testament makes it very clear that Jesus is the son of man: Mat 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay [his] head. Jesus was GIVEN power and authority, he did not own it. God is all-powerful and is independent, he needs no help from anybody. However so this is not the case with Jesus, unlike God, Jesus needs help from God, unlike God, Jesus does not own any power or any authority, rather it is given to him from God. Jhn 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; John 17:6-8: 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that ALL THINGS whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. So, Jesus GIVEN everything he had! This all included miracle, doctrine etc. Basically Jesus did not do anything of his own, he never performed a miracle by his own power, he was given the miracle. He never taught anything of his own, rather he was taught by God and spoke what God told him to speak. Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me Jesus was sent to a specific nation only, not to mankind Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So Jesus was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel. His main duty was for them, not the gentiles or the world. Jesus denied being good in the sense that God is good. Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? The man calls Jesus good, Jesus tells the man there is non good but God. Obviously Jesus referred to God as someone else, which also proves Jesus isn’t God. Jesus could not save anyone from death Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; So Jesus cried to the one who could save him from death, this means Jesus could not save himself from death, therefore this also means Jesus cannot save anyone else from death. Jesus’ believers did NOT believe he was God neither Matthew Chapter 16;13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets So the believers out of the population did not take Jesus as God, they took him for a great man, such as John the Baptist, or Elias, or some others. None of them said he is God. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. Jesus asks his disciples about what they take him to be for, they respond by saying he is the SON OF GOD, Jesus agrees with them and tells them tell no man I am the Christ. So note, Jesus’ disciples do not say you are God, Jesus himself does not say he is God. Now both the son of God and the term Christ do not mean God. They never have, and never will. The term Christ means Messiah, the definition of Messiah is not God. Will you worship Jesus, or the one Jesus worshiped? Matthew 26:36. Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 44. So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, SAYING THE SAME THING. So are you going worship the one Jesus prayed to? Or are you going to worship Jesus? Logically you worship the one Jesus prayed to. God is all-knowing, Jesus fails this main qualification. The verse says ONLY the Father meaning nobody else, including the divine Jesus. Jesus never said I am God, but God says he is God: John 10:30 30 I and my Father are one |
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Reasons why Jesus is not God Jesus is not all knowing: Mark 24: 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. God is all-knowing, Jesus fails this main qualification. The verse says ONLY the Father meaning nobody else, including the divine Jesus. Jesus never said I am God, but God says he is God: Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: The New Testament makes it very clear that Jesus is the son of man: Mat 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay [his] head. Jesus was GIVEN power and authority, he did not own it. God is all-powerful and is independent, he needs no help from anybody. However so this is not the case with Jesus, unlike God, Jesus needs help from God, unlike God, Jesus does not own any power or any authority, rather it is given to him from God. Jhn 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; John 17:6-8: 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that ALL THINGS whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. So, Jesus GIVEN everything he had! This all included miracle, doctrine etc. Basically Jesus did not do anything of his own, he never performed a miracle by his own power, he was given the miracle. He never taught anything of his own, rather he was taught by God and spoke what God told him to speak. Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me Jesus was sent to a specific nation only, not to mankind Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So Jesus was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel. His main duty was for them, not the gentiles or the world. Jesus denied being good in the sense that God is good. Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? The man calls Jesus good, Jesus tells the man there is non good but God. Obviously Jesus referred to God as someone else, which also proves Jesus isn’t God. Jesus could not save anyone from death Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; So Jesus cried to the one who could save him from death, this means Jesus could not save himself from death, therefore this also means Jesus cannot save anyone else from death. Jesus’ believers did NOT believe he was God neither Matthew Chapter 16;13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets So the believers out of the population did not take Jesus as God, they took him for a great man, such as John the Baptist, or Elias, or some others. None of them said he is God. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. Jesus asks his disciples about what they take him to be for, they respond by saying he is the SON OF GOD, Jesus agrees with them and tells them tell no man I am the Christ. So note, Jesus’ disciples do not say you are God, Jesus himself does not say he is God. Now both the son of God and the term Christ do not mean God. They never have, and never will. The term Christ means Messiah, the definition of Messiah is not God. Will you worship Jesus, or the one Jesus worshiped? Matthew 26:36. Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 44. So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, SAYING THE SAME THING. So are you going worship the one Jesus prayed to? Or are you going to worship Jesus? Logically you worship the one Jesus prayed to. God is all-knowing, Jesus fails this main qualification. The verse says ONLY the Father meaning nobody else, including the divine Jesus. Jesus never said I am God, but God says he is God: John 10:30 30 I and my Father are one Jesus fails in this qualification you say? Please elaborate. |
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still slapping each other with meaningless Scriptures I see!
sort of trying to prove your Proof with your proof,hmm? |
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still slapping each other with meaningless Scriptures I see! sort of trying to prove your Proof with your proof,hmm? Proof of what? Nobody's necessarily trying to "prove" anything. Just having a discussion of a specific topic of a specific belief. So of course scriptures or anything relative to that belief there of will be used in the discussion. |
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We can say that Islam and Christianity are involved heavily in the educational and moral commandments that govern human life behavioral, and in turn lead to the creation of a state of harmony, and promotion of virtue and justice in society. The message that we should hold to the world today is the message of the principles and values that came in the monotheistic religions which are based on morals emphasized by Christ repeatedly in all His teachings, and which Islam Prophet make it the objective and purpose of his mission.
When people found the ethics and adhered to, they become more capable of life and continue to supplement the cultural heritage of all that is good and wholesome for the humanity. |
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