how big of an importance do you think rites of passage and rituals
actually make on your judgement day? things like attending church every
sunday, making confessions to a priest or getting baptized.

personally, i don't think they play a very big part as long as you lived
the best you could and sincerely ask for forgiveness for your sins but
then i'm going to hell anyway so you may not want to listen to me.

Well, here's two cents worth...

My understanding of the "judgement day" theme is that those who accept
Jesus as Lord and Savior now will not have a judgement. The judgement
day scene is for those who did not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Their sentence will be to spend eternity in the lake of fire where (if I
remember correctly) there will be groaning and gnashing of teeth. How
you live isn't the question, it's whether you accept the gift of
salvation given to us through the death of Jesus. The religious leaders
of Israel thought that it was all about "how" you live and Jesus scorned
them for it.

thanks for the reply rick. how do you think it comes into play if you
accepted the Lord as your savior but it was out of fear of going to hell
and you really aren't sorry for the pain that you intentionally caused
others?....not tryin to argue rick, i'm just interested in hearing
peoples opinions on this stuff.

Hmmm... the scripture that comes to mind is when Jesus talks about just
such a thing, as the passage says...

Matthew 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick
grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good
tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree
cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every
tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of
heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22
Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in
your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you
evildoers!'

breeze, I know that you were expecting a personal opinion, but my
knowledge isn't based on what I think... it's not supposed to be. My
opinions, if I'm want to be a wise man, should come directly from the
Bible. That is, if I choose to believe that the Bible is the inspired
word of God. If it's nothing more than a history book and I have to
depend on my own intellect, then all of my choices will be selfish,
without love or concern for anyone else and I will forever be lost!!
Don't misunderstand, I am in NO way saying that I "have arrived"... I
struggle every day to do what is right in God's sight and every day I
feel like I fail Him. He knows, though, that I'm not quitting. I think
that that is why I have His grace and mercy.

lol..well the answers to many questions ARE in the Bible if we take the
time to look...I think that post answered his question perfectly rick
;-)

so do i rick. i'm one of those people that doesn't believe the bible
word for word but i do believe that the teachings are correct.

I thought all you born agains will rapture somehow? I still see the
Aventis posters from the early 80's of the rapture that never came. Damn
it. It would be cool to be the last person on earth. You know, to go
into peoples house and rummage though their stuff and see how they
lived. Kind of like an archeological study. LOL

Religion and your belief of the same exists in your heart and mind. I
abide by the Wiccan Rede which states "'an it harm none, do what ye
will". I treat all life as sacred and treat all living things in the way
I would wish to be treated and I strongly disagree with that being a
Christian original concept as it was penned almost 30,000BCE before the
bible was ever thought of. Believe what you believe and live the best
you can. My belief is that satan and hell were created by humans so they
would have someone to blame for their poor choices instead of taking
responsibility for them.

I agree with that about Satan being fictitious as well as a God too.
Both are made up to give people meaning and something to blame for
peoples own fallibility.

But I have to add that Myth is very important in human society. It binds
us as well as give us meaning and guidance. But also I don't believe
it's the only source of humanity either.

If the Bible says that a rich man has as much chance to be in heaven as
it is possible to fit a cow though the eye of the needle, will the Pope
go to hell then?

He seems pretty rich to me. Does that go for all the rich people on
earth?

What does the Pope realy mean to you?

that sayin wasn't meant to be taken literally. all it means is that a
rich man cannot buy his way into heaven if his soul is not worthy.

Well, that saying says to me, that the rich are too busy with their self
indulgence to care about the plight of those less fortunate. As far as
the Pope is concerned That is a power trip for them as any leader of the
same stature. I only revere those who humble them selves and have
profound things to say about how to lead a peaceful and harmonious life.
And those people are never put in the public light that they should.

the power of myth yeah that is it..WILL

what up kb g recon

what's up will

Hey Will and KB. Will, are you familiar with the Joseph Campbell book on
The Power of Myth? Great program I was on PBS about it. He did other
topics of mans use of myth to in conjunction with spirituality with
stories and parables.

Two cents...
I read through these postings, and elsewhere in this forum topic of
religion and I see lots of references to the writings of other men and
women about why men and women believe what they believe. Does anyone see
that as potentially flawed? That we, as individuals, use other people's
thinking to guide our own, as if we have not our own conscience. There
will NEVER be agreement throughout the populus about what to believe,
who to believe, and how to life a "good" life. Is it possible that all
we are required to do is recognize that we all must decide for
ourselves?

amen rickdobs,many people seem to think others have the "answer" and if
they could hear that answer they too would know how to live their lives
and follow a regimen to get to some afterlife. it is when we throw that
yoke off, think for ourselves, read what other "masters" have said in
all spiritual paths ,then we can make a choice and live "our" own life
and be on a path suited for ourselves. if you are a present aware being
you are "there" and on the path to awakening.