Philosopher writes:

"Now if the RFID device were encapsulated in toxic material, there may be some risk from the encapsulation material. Presently the FDA closely regulates what sorts of materials can be implanted within the human body. There are certain materials which are accepted as being low risk (non-toxic) Some examples are certain forms of silicone, certain forms of polyurethane, titanium and teflon.

I think you are chasing a red herring here. I'm asking the questions "Why?" and "If someone is stirring up this question, what are they diverting attention from?" "

I've undergone medical procedures that were a thousand times more riskier than this, but I did so with informed consent and a pretty good understanding of the benefits vs. the risk. While the procedures themselves could have triggered medical events that would have killed me, it had gotten to the point where there was little question that another acute episode _definitely_ would have.

Could the same be said of my being chipped? For a lot less money with zero risk, I can carry a piece of plastic in my wallet from Johns Hopkins University with a bar code on it that will tell any modern facility exactly what my condition is and what previous treatment I had.

That's the real point, along with what looks to me like a pretty blatant conflict of interest on the part of Mr. Thompson. You say the FDA closely regulates such things, but I have to ask: How vigilant can a watchdog be that takes steak from the very people its supposed to be keeping a close eye upon?

"POCKET, n.
The cradle of motive and the grave of conscience." -Ambrose Bierce, in 'The Devil's Dictionary'


-Kerry O.

Word for word, exactly like fitness clipped and pasted.

Only without credit given!!!

No fitness, silicone is not a cancer agent. It is an implantable polymer, used for decades now for coating implantable devices. It can be used in pacemakers, artificial heart pumps, automatic drug infusion pumps, catheters and other items. There has been a search for materials that are low risk and compatible with the human body. Certain forms of silicone fall into that category. The medical industry has to have materials which can be used for these things. If you oppose all forms of medical implants you are simply a Luddite. You need to get with the century.

Fanta, you didn't read it either did you? There is a difference.

I'm really starting to get the idea that some of you simply find articles that you think support your position and post them here without even bothering to read them all the way through, as if you want the others in this forum to do your homework for you.

Word for word, exactly what fitness clipped and pasted, except this time read and evaluated for content and used to support the opposite position.

Kerry, I think you are right that there may be better alternatives than having an implant. Personally I think implants should only be used with necessary. However some people may be unable to hang on to a wallet, or not trust themselves to do so. I think it comes down to an individual choice. If Uncle Sam starts requiring everyone to have an RFID implant I'm going to be very much against it, as will most Americans.

I read up on those chips and found they are encapsulated in glass anyway so I dont even see where the silica/silicon would make any difference.

Maybe its the glass causing the cancer???

I wouldnt want a chip on me but many companies are doing this for security measures! I would think the risk would be minimal and have thought about it for my dog!!

I think it would be a good idea in case she was lost!!!

There is just something a little bif-brother about it for me to have one though. I could see it in children though. If they were kidnapped it might come in handy!!

Philosopher writes:
"I'm really starting to get the idea that some of you simply find articles that you think support your position and post them here without even bothering to read them all the way through, as if you want the others in this forum to do your homework for you."

I'm not sure how wide a brush your using to apply this position, but just in case: Yes, I knew RFIDs were passive, and if you'll review the excerpts I posted, you'll notice the emphasis was on immune system problems caused by the body trying to deal with something that's not as inert as advertised.

And even that's secondary to the ethics problems I see, which is why I entitled the O.P. as I did. The Bush administration's idea of watchdogging resembles less that of Cerberus they've claimed as an odious roadblock to progress and more like that of the RCA dog (His Master's Voice) playing Arthur Anderson to Enron's "Kenny Boy". Sorry, like **** Cheney's Halliburton problem, this doesn't inspire confidence in executive branch integrity in the face of financial temptations.


"Kerry, I think you are right that there may be better alternatives than having an implant. Personally I think implants should only be used with necessary. However some people may be unable to hang on to a wallet, or not trust themselves to do so. I think it comes down to an individual choice. If Uncle Sam starts requiring everyone to have an RFID implant I'm going to be very much against it, as will most Americans."

I agree. And I'm pretty sure you'll also agree with me on the principle of informed consent. If due diligence hasn't been done because business concerns were given veto power in the name of expediency, what does that say for informed consent?

Having been there, I can tell you the world gets to be a pretty lonely place when you're faced with making life & death decisions alone. It's even moreso when you find out that some of the information you may have had to base those decisions upon was slipshod and incomplete because it may have cut into someone's profit margin otherwise.

I think the government owes a sacred trust to its citizens to get it right and to Hades with the special interests and the people in that government that sell out to them.

-Kerry O.

I agree with most of what you said here.

Let me bring up an ambiguous point with your post though.

First a two paragraph clip

"The FDA is overseen by the Department of Health and Human Services, which, at the time of VeriChip's approval, was headed by Tommy Thompson. Two weeks after the device's approval took effect on Jan. 10, 2005, Thompson left his Cabinet post, and within five months was a board member of VeriChip Corp. and Applied Digital Solutions. He was compensated in cash and stock options.

Thompson, until recently a candidate for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination, says he had no personal relationship with the company as the VeriChip was being evaluated, nor did he play any role in FDA's approval process of the RFID tag."

I do not recall a Tommy Thompson as a Republican Candidate.
I know of a Fred Thompson who is now a candidate.

I get the feeling that this article blurs the lines between the one person and the other. So as wide brushes go, this one paints two individuals with the same slur. Particularly at the bottom of the article, where it is not clear to which Thompson they are referring, the current presidential candidate, or the previous one I never heard of.

It is interesting that a head of the FDA might go to work for a medical devices company, but maybe not so odd as it seems. The FDA approval process is quite tedious and experts in the field are needed to process the proper documents and to assure all the proper steps are taken.

Every major medical device manufacturer faces this burden and it is probably a good thing that they do. The more successful companies can afford to pay the more qualified employees and consultants. As a top position holder in the FDA, this Tommy Thompson would be well qualified, it seems.

Nevertheless I do not see this as an issue to presidential politics or something concerning Fred Thompson in particular.

well, I've just done a bit of reading, and even though the cases of cancer are of concern to me, it disturbs me most that every idiot can buy a RFID chip reader. Meaning every idiot can get the information from you chip?
And how are the chips supposed to work in a kidnapping case when the radius it works in is 30 feet?

The readers are not so cheap as the RFID devices themselves. 30 feet would be a long range device, and the information stored on the devices is very limited. Usually just a few bytes.

Wouldn't it be very interesting if everyone could be outfitted with a long range RFID chip and a GPS, everyone coded to a serial number so nay person can be tracked anywhere on earth at any time.

You could be sleeping in the grass in the wilderness and if the gov't decided you were Fanta, they could come get you without notice. Oh heck. We all better behave or they'll require implanting at birth along with the circumcision process. Take one thing off and add another.

This way or the other, I would see it as cutting down my privacy, so the answer would be, thanks, but no, thanks.

Philospher writes:

"I do not recall a Tommy Thompson as a Republican Candidate.
I know of a Fred Thompson who is now a candidate."

Check his Wikipedia entry for this pertinent excerpt:

"On April 1, 2007, he announced on This Week that he was a candidate for the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election. On August 12, after a disappointing sixth-place finish in the key Iowa Straw Poll, Thompson announced the end of his campaign for president."


Also, a possible gaffe on his part:

"During a May 3, 2007, presidential debate at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library Thompson said in response to a question from moderator Chris Matthews that a private employer opposed to homosexuality should have the right to fire a gay worker. He said, "I think that is left up to the individual business. I really sincerely believe that that is an issue that business people have got to make their own determination as to whether or not they should be." He called CNN the following morning to say he didn't hear the question correctly. He apologized, saying, "It's not my position. There should be no discrimination in the workplace." "



-Kerry O.

I don't care if someone is fired for being gay, they can find a job somewhere else. All of society is not so prejudiced. If someone does not want to have anyone working for him for any reason I think they should be able to fire them. What if you hired someone and they came to work dressed like a hooker every day no matter what you said? What if you hired a guy and he wore kneepads and hung around in the men's bathroom all the time or wore a skirt and hung around in the girls bathroom? Everyone's threshold for intolerance is different, but only the lamest wimps have no threshold where they become intolerant. This goes back to drawing the line between being a nice guy and being a doormat.

If you have a good employee and he does his work well and behaves nicely, and you fire him because he is gay, good luck with your business because good employees are hard to keep. Others will probably jump ship too if you are too intolerant.

It makes sense that he withdrew his candidacy because he was so far down that he was in the wagon wheel rut.

I don't see what it matters that he once was involved with a company that manufactured RFID devices for implant.

On another note, now I'm wondering what these cute little RFID devices cost for someone who wants one implanted. Maybe I could pot them up in some silicone and sell them to the medical industry. Anybody heard a price for one implantable in pets?

Smoking has been proven to cause cancer, but the FDA has not outlawed cigarettes, what is your point

There's a notice on every pack of cigarettes to that effect, and the tobacco industry has long given up on trying to bribe government officials by various means to misinform the public otherwise.

Let's say a Democratic president appoints the Marlboro Man to the post of Surgeon General, and he reversed years of precedent by saying it was all a government Chicken Little Act. After having accomplished that and quitting, he's given a lucrative position with Phillip Morris. I think you'd at least be wanting to know what was up with that, wouldn't you?




-Kerry O.

The Marlboro Man died of Cancer. This might not be too good of an example.

How about if Hillary owned stock in a health care conglomerate that would benefit from nationalized health care? That one would annoy a few people.

Philosopher writes:

"How about if Hillary owned stock in a health care conglomerate that would benefit from nationalized health care?"

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? But, I catch your drift, and yes, I'd want to know that. I'm not sure how much difference it would make since I'm not inclined to vote for her anyway. She's carrying way too much Corporate America baggage. As a lawyer, she represented people like Wal-Mart against the little guy, and some of us are not inclined to forget things like that.

Besides, who wants to see the Monarchy of the Two Families monopolizing the White House ad nauseum?

-Kerry O.

It's Monday the start of a new week remember to change the tinfoil in your hat

Mine is aluminum foil thank you.

Hurray Aluminum!!

Not necessary, Gardy ole boy. I'm immune to your conservative mind tricks. But if I may make a counter suggestion?

Take some Reglan.

'A move in the right direction' its pharma advertising says (if you'll pardon the somewhat unintentional pun). It'll help that bile problem you seem to be experiencing whilst getting your butt whooped in political debates with your fellow citizens whom you obviously hold in low esteem for not being cookie cutter Stepford Americans.

And really now, 'tin foil hats'? Sheesh, even Ripley wouldn't believe how lame with age that line is. Do you practice that line in front the mirror in the morning when you shave? I think you have the sneer almost perfectly. A little more Bogart. Yes. Perfect.

I know it's hard watching all the top Republicans on your Dream Team getting sent to the showers or falling on their own swords, but really, pride goeth before the fall, and youse were more prideful than most. It could well be that Dubya is the Post Modern Moses- leading his nation to wander sans rudder for 40 years in the god foresaken desert.

So, laugh it up. :) It'll make that ulcer feel better.

-Kerry O.

from your knowledge of chemistry looks like you are the one on reglan Kerry. if you can't tell the difference between silica and silicone, I would venture to say you can't differentiate between your gluttius maximus and Aha either.