Thanks for clearing that up... That's why I asked.., instead of assumed anything..

^^^ Thanks, Viv... Right back at ya, Sister..!

I would suggest reading "Fools Crow: Wisdom & Power" (Thomas Mails) for a good overview of some Indigenous Healing techniques, and there are many good books available on the traditional use of medicinal herbs.

Of course.., nothing can beat sitting down with a traditional elder & learning from them. They have more knowledge than all the books put together. It is an honor to do so...

Just having a good intention, understanding the need to be thankful for all of creation & everything we are lucky enough to have in this life & a respect for Spirit, will bring some knowledge in itself.

If you believe countries are people, ...and there were people here (North America) when explorers first arrived, than who can say for sure how long they were already here?

I want you to imagine a scenario that is a sort of similar to the history here:

Imagine eating your dinner with your family one night, on land that your father, your grandfather, your great grandfather (and so on) lived on before. A stranger knocks on your door.

He says, "Hi.... We just discovered your land..., and we are sending you somewhere else to live, because we are forming a new country and are different from you, so we don't want you influencing our lives in any way".

"Discovered?", you say. "My family have lived here for hundreds of years. You didn't discover anything."

Sidenote:

If anyone is interested in hearing/seeing some "real" interpretations of what has happened over the centuries, I highly advise a series made by NA Indigenous people, called: "WE SHALL REMAIN"..

It's replayed on APTN (Aboriginal Peoples Television Network).. and
WNED quite regularly..

If you can't get those stations and/or want to see some segments right away, I found a you-tube channel with a lot on there.. Here's a page LINK for you:

http://www.youtube.com/user/jbags84/videos?sort=p&view=0&shelf_index=1

Thanks..I will watch those on You Tube..as we do not get the channels you spoke of.

There are some really good episodes.. (about nine, I believe..?)

The one on Goyathlay (Geronimo's real name) is amazing.., but I could say this about all of them..

EDIT: Speaking of Geronimo..., there are two movies "Geronimo: Am Amerrican Legend (Hollywood version with Matt Damon & Gene Hackman... okay.., but misses some key points)... and the best one I have seen, is another Indigenous production just entitled: Geronimo (TUrner Films)... This one shows how he lost three wives, children and his mother, all to enemy soldiers... It also begins with him as a boy... right up until the meeting with the President..

I've seen the first one...will have to look up the second.

There's about 8-10 in total...

Another good idea for night, is the movie THUNDERHEART... (Val Kilmer/ Graham Greene)

It's a true story.. and the medicine man in the film is based from Frank Fools Crow.. (even the actor: Chief Ted Thin Elk is an actual MM..)...

Very moving film.. You will be laughing one minute and in tears the next...

If you look at the last credits at the end, you will see the dedication to Fools Crow..

I have many other films that I can recommend, too.. Books, also..

But.., as I said earlier in here, nothing beats listening to an Elder tell things...

That's true..only so many of us never have the chance to hear an Elder tell their histories. Have you ever heard of Victorio...his story is amazing.

No.. I haven't... Most of the Elders I have had the privilege & honor of sitting down with are relatively unknown to the mainstream..

He was the leader of an Apache Band in the late 1800's. A Warm Spring Apachie from Arizona, but he and his band ran all through Arizona, New Mexico, West Texas and Mexico. His band was one of the last in the Indian Wars here in the southwest. A great military minded man..The soldiers couldn't catch him..He was killed by a Mescalero scout in a mountain range called the Pillars in Mexico.. His people cut his body up and carried it in many different directions so the Army wouldn't see him. His sister was a "Seeer" and a Healer.

I will have to research him, Interesting... If he was with one of the last Apache tribes to be herded into Florida, he was most likely Chiricahua Apache.. Same as Geronimo.. Geronimo was the last to be captured..

No, he was never hered to Florida..the only reservstion he went to was in Ozo, Arizona., but he joined his tribe there for just a short while., of his own free will. He left there and with the help of his sister..raided and fought mostly in West Texas and Mexico. The military could never catch him..he actually was better at planning his battles than the army. He swore neer to be taken by the military and he never was.
Most of the Indians in the Southwest turned into Mexicans, after the battle at Black Mountain North of Van Horn, Texas is the early 1900's. It was better for them to fade into Mexicans than go to the reservations.
The Tijua Mescaleros were hated by the Apachies, because they became scouts for the Army and one stabbed Victorio in a fight at the Pillars..He died from that fight, but it was speculated that one of his band actually killed him, because he was so severily injured and could not travel. That's were the story of them dismembering him came from...any way the army never captured him.

Hmmm... I found a different version on Wiki... Seems he was with Geronimo for awhile...

I really wouldn't say that anyone "turned into Mexxicans" though... The Mexicans were responsible for a LOT of deaths to Native people.. ONe examplke, is that they lured all the men out of Geronimo's settlement on the premise of doing a freindly trade..., then sent their soilders around the other way.., who killed all of the woman and childfren remaining there... Geronimo lost two children, his first wife & his mother, in that one raid..

Here's another version about Victorio... I do remember him now, as I looked back through the book: Geronimo: My life.., last evening.. (I'm terrible with names... everything else I can clearly remember.., back to less than two months of age)..:

Biography: VICTORIO

Victorio grew up in the Chihenne band. There is speculation that he or his band had Navajo kinship ties and was known among the Navajo as "he who checks his horse". Victorio's sister was the famous woman warrior Lozen, or the "Dextrous Horse Thief".

In 1853 he was considered a chief or sub chief by the United States Army and signed a document. In his twenties, he rode with Geronimo and other Apache leaders. As was the custom, he became the leader of a band of ....Chiricahuas....... and Mescaleros and fought against the United States Army.

From 1870 to 1880, Victorio and his band were moved to and left at least three different reservations, some more than once, despite his band's request to live on traditional lands. The Ojo Caliente reservation was located in their traditional territory. Victorio and his band were moved to San Carlos Reservation in Arizona Territory in 1877. He and his followers left the reservation twice before but came back only to leave permanently in late August 1879 which started Victorio's War. Victorio was successful at raiding and evading capture by the military, he won a significant engagement at Las Animas Canyon on September 18, 1879.

In April, 1880, Victorio was credited with leading the Alma Massacre – a raid on United States settlers' homes around Alma, New Mexico. During this event, several settlers were killed. Victorio's warriors were finally driven off with the arrival of American soldiers from Fort Bayard. However, Victorio continued his campaign with the attack on Fort Tularosa.[1]

In October 1880, while moving along the Rio Grande in northern Mexico, Victorio and his band were surrounded and killed ........by soldiers of the Mexican Army......... under Mauricio Corredor in the Tres Castillos Mountains (29.96667°N 105.78333°W),[2] in the Mexican state of Chihuahua. Some women and children escaped but were sent with ......Geronimo...... to Florida, Alabama and Oklahoma.

Yes, I have read those reports also..and at my age, I tend to get facts wrong..especially if I'm trying to remember something I haven't thought about in a long time..But I have met the descendants of some of the Indians in the West Texas region, and they all, including the elders have said that they absorbed themselves into the Mexican population., regardless if they fought them or not, because it was better to become Mexican than stay Indian..as little as 15 yrs ago the Elders, refused to admit they were with the tribes that fought during the final war years..they still believed they would be hunted down.
And yes, Victorio was surrounded by the Mexican army..but it was with a Mescalero Sout that he had his final fight..the Army did not personal capture or kill him.
And he did ride with Germonio at times. And His sister Lozen was a warrior, seer , and she also knew the healing arts, but was better known for her "Seeing" abilites.
Somewhere I have a copy of the report from the Calvery Col. that was in the "Last Battle" in West Texas. His Report actually made me sick. It was far from a 'battle' and more of a massacre of the Indians.

I mentioned "Fools Crow" in an earlier post ..as (in my humble opinion) he was/is the prime example of oneness.

I invite everyone to read the book I have listed... (even those of you who don't believe/follow this pathway).. and tell me if there is not a real similarity between Jesus, Ghandi, Dalai Lama and Fools Crow.

I'm NOT talking about the "Church"/religion here, I am talking about the "attitude & intention" of all four men. Spirituality can come in many different forms, from many different cultures and from many different leaders, but...., if the INTENTION isn't right, it doesn't mean anything.

We can all learn something, from each other...

I am originally from Northern Ontario, Canada,..., very near to the world's largest fresh water island: "Manitoulin Island".

The story about it, is that God (who is also named "Manitou" & "Ghitze Manidoo" in that area) needed to create an island for vacationing & relaxing. So..., he/she (I don't like giving a gender to Wankan Tanka) ...created Manitoulin, which means: "God's Island" (or God's Fort Lauderdale, depending who you talk to....ha-ha!). It is my favourite place in the world!

Doesn't seem to be a very popular thread, so far..?