ts more of a realistic conversation when you dont pander to those who demean others professions. I have the basic needs met. my government didnt hand them to me, ive had to work very hard for all that i have.

?????

Many of the wealthy
don't even pay any
taxes.

At all.

Where do you get
45 cents on the dollar?
I think you made that up.

I never said life was fair.

But we live in a country
that is one of the wealthiest
in the world.

Shouldn't people be
making livable wages?

Many people aren't.

I wasn't talking about
a handout. Most people
would rather earn a living
than live off welfare or
unemployment.

When I talk about fairness
I mean allowing people to
have a livable wage,
affordable health insurance,
etc...

look up the tax rates yourself, yes im probably wrong, i actually think it is higher. you know you can look up individuals as well.

hummm livable wages. are you homeless, is there a roof over your head. hell your on a computer so there must be some extra cash around for frivalous spending. how many drinks a day do you drink that are not water?

class envy doesnt solve the problems. thats like saying i wish i were so and so then wouldnt my life be better. screw that be a man, you want something bad enough then do what it takes to get it, sacrifice, hard work, dedication. it all pays off

Marginal Tax Rate Single Married Filing Jointly or Qualified
Widow(er) Married Filing Separately Head of Household
10% $0-7,825 $0-15,650 $0-7,825 $0-11,200
15% $7,826-31,850 $15,651-63,700 $7,826-31,850 $11,201-42,650
25% $31,851-77,100 $63,701-128,500 $31,851-64,250 $42,651-110,100
28% $77,101-160,850 $128,501-195,850 $64,251-97,925 $110,101-178,350
33% $160,851-349,700 $195,851-349,700 $97,926-174,850 $178,351-349,700
35% $349,701+ $349,701+ $174,851+ $349,701+


yeah okay my bad.... it's 35% of every dollar earned, im in the 25% what about you. am i paying enough or should there be more? oh wait there is also my state tax, social security tax... think that it doesnt apply to the rich as well? honestly. be happy your not living in a really impoverished part of the world eating maggots for protien.

There is no perfect system of governance out there. They all have their problems. Capitalism has become the exploitation of the little guy due to sheer greed. I don't think that was the original intention.
As far as a million dollars goes. WTF is that really anymore. Look at the rising cost of everything. To a lot of us it's a lot but when you look at "old money" then it doesn't account for much. When you have billionaires and families full of billionaires they're just middle class and we're the low income earners. It's a matter of perspective.

ah yes but who here wouldnt take that same measly million dollar pie.

and the intent was a republic if history serves. what got in the way...i dont know, ask the people who ***** because we have the word god on the money or in our history. start there then follow the special intrest groups around. and be fair now and follow all of them around.

I make a livable wage.

I was talking about those who don't.

I wasn't speaking of myself personally.

I am a man, more of a man than you'll ever know.

Also, forget the tax rate for a moment.

Some rich people don't pay taxes
and haven't for years.

Also, others find tax loopholes that
help them avoid paying any taxes whatsoever.

Do you eat maggots for protein?

has this turned personal?

have I eaten maggots- yes but it was an exercise and i can tell you it was nasty- you dont eat the heads though. have i seen REAL poverty, hell yes, was it in the US? hell no. do people in this country know what poverty really is? nah i dont believe they do. there is always an out here, you can always find a meal here. always find somewhere to lay your head that is not out in the open, all you have to do is ask for it.

I wasnt questioning your manhood hiker guy. I have no reason to doubt anyone's. not my style on a forum anyway.

tax loop holes- yes we all use them, if you filled your taxes last year and didnt claim single with no deductions then you yourself used a tax loop hole. see if you can google bill gates taxes or any info that says how much the man paid. he's the richest one you know, and if he's paying then so are the others.

maybe all empires implode at the end of their time....it may be that Romans felt much the same as us at the end of their rule....or it could be the death of capitalism.....after years of chasing dollars the average person has given up..has become burned out...maybe its time for a new system...or....
astrologically it may be the effects of Pluto...Pluto is known as the psychic vacuum cleaner...when Pluto rules the heavens we are forced to reexamine all assumptions about our reality ....what we thought was true may be false when we examine it...and we are currently under the influence of Pluto ...for the next 2 yrs....

regardless....there seems to be a "feeling" that is worldwide that something is not right in our world....that reality is constant...

!!!

Gypsy.....!!! = agreement?...

sure.....and Im trying to change the topic so the gypsy thread will die!!!

The end of an empire? Maybe. Things will change, it's the only true constant. Hopefully for the better.

Hi Bill, Gypsy

HIya kid!

Ok, doc, perhaps I misjudged you a bit.

We won't get personal.

To stay on topic, all I'm saying is there are those who aren't paying their fair share or playing by the rules.

Now I understand this is subject to a lot of interpretation.

I'm not down on any corporations or individuals who play by the rules. Many are ethical, generous and give a lot of money to worthy causes.

But it seems like a lot of others don't play by the rules.

That isn't fair to the majority of other people, businesses and corporations who work hard and play by the rules.

Seems individual, business and political scandals are at an all-time high.

This is what happens when a society has lost its moral compass.

Sometimes I think business ethics is an oxymoron, but that's what is needed, not only that, but personal ethics and political ethics.

I just saw the movie John Doe again, I haven't seen it in many years...Remember him? Garry Cooper stared along with Barbara Stanwick.............I was all about the political machinery of then.............nothing much has changed......whose fault is that? We all let it happen.....there it was on the big screen, did we think, it was fiction?

Thanks Davinci- I thought the article was interesting although somewhat biased by the nature of the authors experiences.

Re: the Camp Casey experience- one thing you have to remember when you attend something like that is that most of the people there have no jobs... that's why they have the ability to live in a tent in Texas. there are some who are dedicated, intelligent, sane humans who have sacrificed to be there because they believe in the cause... others are on the edge of crazies with nothing better to do. And some are grief stricken parents of fallen soldiars... no wonder he was confused and dismayed by the discordance there...

Re: People who really care about who wins the game- already been said- happens lots of places, is twisted to me and I will continue to speak up when I see this kind of idiotic behaivor, especially around childred. "Funny" (?) story- a good friend of mine is an umpire for amature baseball. He made a call that a father didn't like and the father punched him in the nose on the field during the game. This was at a PALS (police athetic league) game and the guy who punched him was a COP!!! and his buddys hustled him off the field so he wouldn't get in trouble...

Re: Poor manners. This really bothers me. I would never ask a guest for money but if you know the person you are staying with is very poor, and can't really even afford to have you there, then I do think you should offer or even just pay for things. But to me this sounds like a fairly isolated instance. And when I was in college we never thought of each other as "guests" when we stayed at each others apartments, dorms, etc. you just slept where it was convenient when the party or nights events were over and everyone chipped in for everything. So maybe that was behind the thinking of the person he stayed with?

Poor manners... I'm posting twice because my first post was so long most of you stopped reading and this is the part that is really important to me that I didn't see being already addressed by others...

I don't know when the term "PC" or "politically correct" came into common usage in this country but to me it is huge problem.

I have frequently had people comment to me, "Oh I can't believe you are so PC". Why do they think I'm so "PC"? Because I will not listen to slurs or do not think "jokes' about another human beings ethnicitity, religion, accent, orientation are funnny?

I'm not an angel, I laugh at other people sometimes- people are funny and they amuse me. I laugh at their fashion choices, at their mannerisms, at people who take themselves too seriously... But to me to laugh at innate charactoristics, cherished beliefs, a proud culture- I don't think "that's not PC" I just think it's bad manners.... I just think it's rude.

And I hold the concept of "political correctness" partly to blame for the poor manners I see being accepted in our current society... and I place even more blame on the politicians, of all parties, who are our public examples of behavior and yet treat one another with such little respect and common courtesy. We will have to stop rewarding them for these behaviors to get anywhere with this issue...

OK rant over. If anyone wants to go next... your turn!

((((( O ))))) Long..? I for one would never stop reading your post Your posts, regardless of length always have a distinguished, intellectual point to be made (even when I disagree)...so keep posting away