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Topic: Why the Gun is Civilization
Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 01/05/13 07:08 AM
Edited by Drivinmenutz on Sat 01/05/13 07:52 AM


Bullshyte. I would take a gun toters *** out by force without a gun myself. Gun totin leads to a false sense of security. It only works if your opponent is stupid enough to let you see what is coming....slaphead and then just for fun I will use the gun toters gun against him so he can really be degraded....bigsmile


IF this were the case, then why has no one written Obama and told him to disarm his secret service because they are a danger to his personal safety? Or is the president not important enough? This may not have been what you meant, however i felt compelled to comment.

I do agree with the false sense of security, as i have mentioned in a separate post, but the majority of gun "toters" (im translating this to meaning those who carry concealed), have been trained differently, and surprisingly enough, they listen.

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 01/05/13 07:52 AM
Edited by Drivinmenutz on Sat 01/05/13 07:54 AM

we were more 'civilized' with muskets,,,,


Im guesses much fewer 'accidental' shootings in those days


because to take a life took a BIT more skill and to take multiple lives took a bit more time,,,


in one on one situations,,,a gun makes the weak person have strength

great if he is the victim,, terrible if he is the offender


in group settings, the gun is clearly the least desirable 'weapon' for an offender to have,, as any of those other 'weapons' take enough time and effort to make it much less likely for tne number of victims to climb rapidly


as to violence in general, its about more than the weapon , there is also timing

I am sure the person with the knife who surprises a gunman in their sleep or seated and comfortable, by walking up behind them and quickly slicing their neck,, has the upper hand over the man with the gun

there are too many scenarios of what constitutes violence and what the end results are in terms of victims and offenders

but in speaking MASS Death,,,, the gun is the great unequalizer,,,,particularly in the hands of an anxious/impulsive/unreasonable person


I agree that the effectiveness of weapons depends more on the situation than the weapon itself. Again, a firearm is merely a tool. Nothing more than a power drill is to a carpenter (with exactly the opposite outcome of course).

I respectfully disagree with people being more "civilized" prior to having semiautomatic weapons. Think back in history to ancient times, before muskets were even invented. I seem to recall reference to times when citizens would cheer as women at children were being ripped apart by lions as punishment for whatever crime they committed . Or women being stoned to death after being "cheating" on her husband (whether or not the infidelity was voluntary). And i need not mention the brutality of the "Salem Witch Trials" (although muskets did exist back then) These are just a few of the many examples of how people in industrialized nations have come a long way as far as becoming more civilized.


Society is a funny thing. You cannot simply pass a law and expect it to do what you want. There is an equal and opposing reaction (for ex. prohibition was the biggest financial backer to the gangs in the 1930's). And, believe it or not, violent crime has been decreasing steadily since 1993. (That excludes the past year). Furthermore, oddly enough, there has not been a full scale war between first world countries since World War II, which many attribute to the development of atomic weapons. Many believe we can attribute this to the development of "massively destructive" weapons (nuclear bombs).

Note: I am not condoning countries having them, nor promoting access to any massively destructive weapons, I am merely emphasizing my point of human nature and its "equal and opposing reactions".


As I have previously mentioned, there are many more moving parts in society than just the added firepower. I think you will find there is a mental health problem in this country that needs to be addressed. According to sociologists there is a large undisputable correlation between economics and crime (crime increases as the economy decreases). And then there is the issue of over medication. Children are exposed to highly addictive and/or mind altering pharmaceuticals from a young age (and people wonder why they lack certain coping skills).

Again, my life philosophy follows closely to my medical philosophy, if there is a problem treat the cause, not a symptom.

Conrad_73's photo
Sat 01/05/13 08:41 AM




Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we’d be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger’s potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger’s potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that’s the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there’s the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don’t constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that’s as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weightlifter. It simply wouldn’t work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn’t both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation…and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/2007/03/23/why-the-gun-is-civilization/


Bullshyte. I would take a gun toters *** out by force without a gun myself. Gun totin leads to a false sense of security. It only works if your opponent is stupid enough to let you see what is coming....slaphead and then just for fun I will use the gun toters gun against him so he can really be degraded....bigsmile
so much for the Pacifist!
Must have been trained to take Firearms away from People!

Really!:laughing:

s1owhand's photo
Sat 01/05/13 09:40 AM
Just days after the horrific shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut, a 19-year-old man opened fire at a San Antonio movie theater complex late Sunday night, wounding one person before getting shot by a police officer. Both the shooter and the victim survived.

Jesus Manuel Garcia lashed out Sunday evening after his girlfriend ended their relationship, according to the San Antonio Express-News. An employee at a nearby China Garden restaurant, Garcia texted his ex with a note saying he was going to the eatery to “shoot somebody."

“We thought we were going to die,” recalled moviegoer Tara Grace, who said she locked herself in a restroom stall to avoid the chaos.

By the time the woman read the message and called the restaurant around 9:25 p.m., Jesus was at the China Garden firing his Glock 23 at the front entrance. After chasing customers and staff out a rear exit, the shooter followed an employee through the parking lot towards the Santikos Mayan Palace theater, firing bullets into the air.

After taking out a the window of a San Antonio patrol car, Garcia shot the restaurant employee in the back as the two reached the movie theater lobby. An off-duty police officer working security at the Mayan Palace eventually cornered Garcia in a restroom, shooting him several times until she could take his gun.

http://houston.culturemap.com/newsdetail/12-17-12-texas-movie-theater-shooting-creates-chaos-and-fear-but-quick-thinking-security-guard-steps-in/

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