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| Topic: Is Anti-Zionism merely Anti-Semitism repackaged? | |
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I think the whole anti-Jew thing is just repackaged and resold. You can call it anything you want but it is all the same. My point exactly. Racism is taught from an early age. Some outgrow the lies and form their own opinions and many don't. There are a lot of evil greedy Jews just like there are a lot of evil greedy Russians, Albanians, Hispanics, Congolese, and every other racial and nationalistic group. Some versions of "taught from birth" cause the Jew-Arab conflict to run so deep that an end is nowhere in sight. I don't see any change in how the children are taught but I do see that event as the only cure for the problem. The cycle of generational violence must be broken in the home, the schools and by the media. It takes a massive effort on the part of all those involved.  
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If someone says they are anti-Zionist then the next question should be "Why?" Why would anyone be opposed to a Jewish state in their homeland - Israel now 64 years later? Anti-Zionism now is Anti-Israel. Note that these people do not claim to be opposed merely to the policies of Israel. No, they are opposed to Israel itself. They oppose the idea of Israel. Why? Of all the countries surrounding Israel in the Middle East, only democratic Israel maintains freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, full rights to all citizens, protections of minorities and women. Why would someone single out Israel for derision while tolerating the oppression of the neighboring Muslim states? The usual rationale is that the land did not belong to the Jews but in fact the Jews living there have as much right to the land there as anyone. It was acquired legally during immigration there over several centuries before civil war broke out and the English left. And of course Israel always was the birthplace of the Jews and the land they originally ruled and developed. If the they simply do not want them there because they are Jewish, if it would be alright the people there were some other religion or ethnicity... If the issue is that it is a Jewish state then it is antisemitism. Pure and Simple. The Jewish people have built a nation and their detractors have to come to terms with this. They are going nowhere and any attempts to delegitimize their ethnicity and heritage are worthless diversions. |
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Edited by
HotRodDeluxe
on
Thu 06/21/12 04:11 AM
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 Bumped to meet the challenge. Let's re-cap a few points: Before we move on, let's have a look at the (almost) universally accepted definition of the term 'Anti-Semitism' The definition of anti-Semitism has been the focus of innumerable discussions and studies. While there is no universally accepted definition, there is a generally clear understanding of what the term encompasses. For the purposes of this report, anti-Semitism is considered to be hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity. An important issue is the distinction between legitimate criticism of policies and practices of the State of Israel, and commentary that assumes an anti-Semitic character. The demonization of Israel, or vilification of Israeli leaders, sometimes through comparisons with Nazi leaders, and through the use of Nazi symbols to caricature them, indicates an anti-Semitic bias rather than a valid criticism of policy concerning a controversial issue. Global anti-Semitism in recent years has had four main sources: Traditional anti-Jewish prejudice that has pervaded Europe and some countries in other parts of the world for centuries. This includes ultra-nationalists and others who assert that the Jewish community controls governments, the media, international business, and the financial world. Strong anti-Israel sentiment that crosses the line between objective criticism of Israeli policies and anti-Semitism. Anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by some in Europe's growing Muslim population, based on longstanding antipathy toward both Israel and Jews, as well as Muslim opposition to developments in Israel and the occupied territories, and more recently in Iraq. Criticism of both the United States and globalization that spills over to Israel, and to Jews in general who are identified with both. http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/40258.htm It will, of course (somewhat predictably), be argued that the State Dept. produced this document as propaganda for their masters (Rothschilds/Illuminati/insert bogeyman of choice). However, this technique is transparent and produces a logical fallacy, as it is mere opinion and does not hold up to scrutiny, for the source material is often weak, and demonstrates a belief system moreso than producing evidence. |
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Bumped to meet the challenge. Good luck with that... 
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Bumped to meet the challenge. Good luck with that... Thanks, but I'll be fine.  Care to join the festivities?
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Bumped to meet the challenge. Good luck with that... Thanks, but I'll be fine. Care to join the festivities? Yes please, what shall I bring?  :
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Edited by
HotRodDeluxe
on
Thu 06/21/12 04:27 AM
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Zionism reversed Jewish historical passivity to persecution and asserted the Jewish right to self-determination and independent survival. This is why anti-Zionists see it as a perversion of Jewish humanism. Zionism entails the difficulty of dealing with sometimes impossible moral dilemmas, which traditional Jewish passivity in the wake of historical persecution had never faced. By negating Zionism, the anti-semite is arguing that the Jew must always be the victim, for victims do no wrong and deserve our sympathy and support.
Israel errs like all other nations: it is normal. What anti-Zionists find so obscene is that Israel is neither martyr nor saint. Their outrage refuses legitimacy to a people's national liberation movement. Israel's stubborn refusal to comply with the invitation to commit national suicide and thereby regain a supposedly lost moral ground draws condemnation. Jews now have the right to self-determination, and that is what the anti-semite dislikes so much. Emanuele Ottolenghi is the Leone Ginzburg Fellow in Israel Studies at the Oxford Centre for Hebrew and Jewish Studies and the Middle East Centre at St Antony's College, Oxford http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/29/comment So, this raises the question, 'Why single out Israel and hold it up repeatedly as a Pariah among the international community?' The answer is, of course, anti-Semitism, for no other nation is subject to such scrutiny. Israel is not infallible, but nor is any other nation, many whose human rights record makes Israel's pale into insignificance, but they are not hated and villified like Israel. Before this turns into the usual argument regarding 'rights' to the land that is now immaterial as the nation exists, and as such, has the right to exist as any other nation. Somehow, everything our culture reviles is attributed indirectly, or directly, to Israel or the Jewish people. That says more about our values than it does about Israel and the Jewish people. |
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Bumped to meet the challenge. Good luck with that... Thanks, but I'll be fine. Care to join the festivities? Yes please, what shall I bring? : Your enviable intellect and gorgeous countenance.
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Bumped to meet the challenge. Good luck with that... Thanks, but I'll be fine. Care to join the festivities? Yes please, what shall I bring? : Your enviable intellect and gorgeous countenance. And I will wear my brand new wading boots too! 
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Bumped to meet the challenge. Good luck with that... Thanks, but I'll be fine. Care to join the festivities? Yes please, what shall I bring? : Your enviable intellect and gorgeous countenance. And I will wear my brand new wading boots too! I predict that when they show up, we will both need a pair. 
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Bumped to meet the challenge. Good luck with that... Thanks, but I'll be fine. Care to join the festivities? Yes please, what shall I bring? : Your enviable intellect and gorgeous countenance. And I will wear my brand new wading boots too! I predict that when they show up, we will both need a pair. Bring the high tops, we can always hose them down after the party!...
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Bumped to meet the challenge. Good luck with that... Thanks, but I'll be fine. Care to join the festivities? Yes please, what shall I bring? : Your enviable intellect and gorgeous countenance. And I will wear my brand new wading boots too! I predict that when they show up, we will both need a pair. Bring the high tops, we can always hose them down after the party!...  Beauty, brains and a great sense of humour! 
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If someone says they are anti-Zionist then the next question should be "Why?" Why would anyone be opposed to a Jewish state in their homeland - Israel now 64 years later? Anti-Zionism now is Anti-Israel. Note that these people do not claim to be opposed merely to the policies of Israel. No, they are opposed to Israel itself. They oppose the idea of Israel. Why? Of all the countries surrounding Israel in the Middle East, only democratic Israel maintains freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, full rights to all citizens, protections of minorities and women. Why would someone single out Israel for derision while tolerating the oppression of the neighboring Muslim states? The usual rationale is that the land did not belong to the Jews but in fact the Jews living there have as much right to the land there as anyone. It was acquired legally during immigration there over several centuries before civil war broke out and the English left. And of course Israel always was the birthplace of the Jews and the land they originally ruled and developed. If the they simply do not want them there because they are Jewish, if it would be alright the people there were some other religion or ethnicity... If the issue is that it is a Jewish state then it is antisemitism. Pure and Simple. The Jewish people have built a nation and their detractors have to come to terms with this. They are going nowhere and any attempts to delegitimize their ethnicity and heritage are worthless diversions. I have to disagree that the detractors are going nowhere. The birthrates of their detractors are some of the highest in the world and the the hatred appears to be intensifying (if that is even possible). Oil money is ever more plentiful allowing a build-up of small arms and weapons production. Education is increasing the ability of building ever more effective IED's and rockets. Children are being taught from birth to hate Jews and Western Civilization to the degree that suicide bombing is a "normal" thing to do. Some western people support the attacks on Israel as a legitimate form of behavior. The collection of conditions and trends along these lines may point to the end of Israel and eventually the end of Western civilization as we know it. I think your comment was directed to the fools on the internet who have said many stupid things and mostly just express blind hatred. However, all detractors do not fit into the "going nowhere" category. |
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Zionism reversed Jewish historical passivity to persecution and asserted the Jewish right to self-determination and independent survival. This is why anti-Zionists see it as a perversion of Jewish humanism. Zionism entails the difficulty of dealing with sometimes impossible moral dilemmas, which traditional Jewish passivity in the wake of historical persecution had never faced. By negating Zionism, the anti-semite is arguing that the Jew must always be the victim, for victims do no wrong and deserve our sympathy and support. Israel errs like all other nations: it is normal. What anti-Zionists find so obscene is that Israel is neither martyr nor saint. Their outrage refuses legitimacy to a people's national liberation movement. Israel's stubborn refusal to comply with the invitation to commit national suicide and thereby regain a supposedly lost moral ground draws condemnation. Jews now have the right to self-determination, and that is what the anti-semite dislikes so much. Emanuele Ottolenghi is the Leone Ginzburg Fellow in Israel Studies at the Oxford Centre for Hebrew and Jewish Studies and the Middle East Centre at St Antony's College, Oxford http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/29/comment So, this raises the question, 'Why single out Israel and hold it up repeatedly as a Pariah among the international community?' The answer is, of course, anti-Semitism, for no other nation is subject to such scrutiny. Israel is not infallible, but nor is any other nation, many whose human rights record makes Israel's pale into insignificance, but they are not hated and villified like Israel. Before this turns into the usual argument regarding 'rights' to the land that is now immaterial as the nation exists, and as such, has the right to exist as any other nation. Somehow, everything our culture reviles is attributed indirectly, or directly, to Israel or the Jewish people. That says more about our values than it does about Israel and the Jewish people. |
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Zionism reversed Jewish historical passivity to persecution and asserted the Jewish right to self-determination and independent survival. This is why anti-Zionists see it as a perversion of Jewish humanism. Zionism entails the difficulty of dealing with sometimes impossible moral dilemmas, which traditional Jewish passivity in the wake of historical persecution had never faced. By negating Zionism, the anti-semite is arguing that the Jew must always be the victim, for victims do no wrong and deserve our sympathy and support. Israel errs like all other nations: it is normal. What anti-Zionists find so obscene is that Israel is neither martyr nor saint. Their outrage refuses legitimacy to a people's national liberation movement. Israel's stubborn refusal to comply with the invitation to commit national suicide and thereby regain a supposedly lost moral ground draws condemnation. Jews now have the right to self-determination, and that is what the anti-semite dislikes so much. Emanuele Ottolenghi is the Leone Ginzburg Fellow in Israel Studies at the Oxford Centre for Hebrew and Jewish Studies and the Middle East Centre at St Antony's College, Oxford http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/29/comment So, this raises the question, 'Why single out Israel and hold it up repeatedly as a Pariah among the international community?' The answer is, of course, anti-Semitism, for no other nation is subject to such scrutiny. Israel is not infallible, but nor is any other nation, many whose human rights record makes Israel's pale into insignificance, but they are not hated and villified like Israel. Before this turns into the usual argument regarding 'rights' to the land that is now immaterial as the nation exists, and as such, has the right to exist as any other nation. Somehow, everything our culture reviles is attributed indirectly, or directly, to Israel or the Jewish people. That says more about our values than it does about Israel and the Jewish people. Zionism reversed Jewish historical passivity to persecution and asserted the Jewish right to self-determination and independent survival. This is why anti-Zionists see it as a perversion of Jewish humanism. Zionism entails the difficulty of dealing with sometimes impossible moral dilemmas, which traditional Jewish passivity in the wake of historical persecution had never faced. By negating Zionism, the anti-semite is arguing that the Jew must always be the victim, for victims do no wrong and deserve our sympathy and support. Natan Sharansky’s "3D" test for anti-semitism.....demonize, delegitimize, and double standard... |
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Bumped to meet the challenge. Good luck with that... Thanks, but I'll be fine. Care to join the festivities? Yes please, what shall I bring? : Your enviable intellect and gorgeous countenance. And I will wear my brand new wading boots too! I predict that when they show up, we will both need a pair. Bring the high tops, we can always hose them down after the party!... Beauty, brains and a great sense of humour! Stop it! She's mine! 
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If someone says they are anti-Zionist then the next question should be "Why?" Why would anyone be opposed to a Jewish state in their homeland - Israel now 64 years later? Anti-Zionism now is Anti-Israel. Note that these people do not claim to be opposed merely to the policies of Israel. No, they are opposed to Israel itself. They oppose the idea of Israel. Why? Of all the countries surrounding Israel in the Middle East, only democratic Israel maintains freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, full rights to all citizens, protections of minorities and women. Why would someone single out Israel for derision while tolerating the oppression of the neighboring Muslim states? The usual rationale is that the land did not belong to the Jews but in fact the Jews living there have as much right to the land there as anyone. It was acquired legally during immigration there over several centuries before civil war broke out and the English left. And of course Israel always was the birthplace of the Jews and the land they originally ruled and developed. If the they simply do not want them there because they are Jewish, if it would be alright the people there were some other religion or ethnicity... If the issue is that it is a Jewish state then it is antisemitism. Pure and Simple. The Jewish people have built a nation and their detractors have to come to terms with this. They are going nowhere and any attempts to delegitimize their ethnicity and heritage are worthless diversions. I have to disagree that the detractors are going nowhere. The birthrates of their detractors are some of the highest in the world and the the hatred appears to be intensifying (if that is even possible). Oil money is ever more plentiful allowing a build-up of small arms and weapons production. Education is increasing the ability of building ever more effective IED's and rockets. Children are being taught from birth to hate Jews and Western Civilization to the degree that suicide bombing is a "normal" thing to do. Some western people support the attacks on Israel as a legitimate form of behavior. The collection of conditions and trends along these lines may point to the end of Israel and eventually the end of Western civilization as we know it. I think your comment was directed to the fools on the internet who have said many stupid things and mostly just express blind hatred. However, all detractors do not fit into the "going nowhere" category. Sorry MW, my post wasn't clear, I was referring to the nation of Israel (Israelis) as 'going nowhere'. Their detractors have to come to terms with this, for there is no going back no matter how much people bleat about genetic origins, or rights. They are there, and they are there to stay. As was demonstrated in 1967, Israel will not sit back and allow their hostile neighbours to walk over them. The collection of conditions and trends along these lines may point to the end of Israel and eventually the end of Western civilization as we know it. I can see this as a possibility in the long term, sadly. |
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Semantics?...Holly War?...Sterotyping?...Creative wordplay?...Anti-Americanism is in vogue?.. Islamism?... Judeophobia?...Protocols of the Elders of Zion?...Post Zionist?... Slice it, dice it, chop it up...doesn't matter...Anti-Semitism is easy to identify...If all else fails, just follow your nose.... It's a very thin line. I think the anti-semites like that way... any way... Shalom! every one! 
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Bumped to meet the challenge. Good luck with that... Thanks, but I'll be fine. Care to join the festivities? Yes please, what shall I bring? : Your enviable intellect and gorgeous countenance. And I will wear my brand new wading boots too! I predict that when they show up, we will both need a pair. Bring the high tops, we can always hose them down after the party!... Beauty, brains and a great sense of humour! Hotrod, me thinks you are smitten. That's good.
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Bumped to meet the challenge. Good luck with that... Thanks, but I'll be fine. Care to join the festivities? Yes please, what shall I bring? : Your enviable intellect and gorgeous countenance. And I will wear my brand new wading boots too! I predict that when they show up, we will both need a pair. Bring the high tops, we can always hose them down after the party!... Beauty, brains and a great sense of humour! Hotrod, me thinks you are smitten. That's good.  I see there are no takers yet. I'm not surprised really. 
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