Previous 1
Topic: Have your compasses been changing as the earth pole shifts?
no photo
Sun 09/25/11 12:24 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sun 09/25/11 12:24 AM

Have your compasses been changing as the earth pole shifts?

Will it continue, and how far will it shift?

Confirmed Earth Pole are Shifting (Jan 2011 NEWS)

jrbogie's photo
Sun 09/25/11 05:57 AM
Edited by jrbogie on Sun 09/25/11 06:08 AM
the link doesn't work for me but "magnetic north", quite different than the axis north pole or "true north" has been shifting since the earth came into existance, jeannie. magnetic variation is an error that must be corrected in order to navigate with a compass. this deviation error is more or less pronounced depending on where on the planet you are when you look at a compass. one could stand on the actual north pole and his compass would indicate that to reach the "magnetic north pole" you would head south. your compass would read north but magnetic north is south of the north pole. weird or what? lol. even weirder is that from the true north pole, every direction is south. but that doesn't address the issue. just interesting to think about.

anyway, isogonic lines are drawn on maps used for navigating to indicate this compass deviation and only when positioned on the agonic line, or line of zero variation, will a compass point directly to true north, again assuming you are not positioned between magnetic north and true north at the north pole. air navigation charts are updated regularly partly because magnetic north is constantly shifting in relation to true north.

no photo
Sun 09/25/11 12:24 PM

the link doesn't work for me but "magnetic north", quite different than the axis north pole or "true north" has been shifting since the earth came into existance, jeannie. magnetic variation is an error that must be corrected in order to navigate with a compass. this deviation error is more or less pronounced depending on where on the planet you are when you look at a compass. one could stand on the actual north pole and his compass would indicate that to reach the "magnetic north pole" you would head south. your compass would read north but magnetic north is south of the north pole. weird or what? lol. even weirder is that from the true north pole, every direction is south. but that doesn't address the issue. just interesting to think about.

anyway, isogonic lines are drawn on maps used for navigating to indicate this compass deviation and only when positioned on the agonic line, or line of zero variation, will a compass point directly to true north, again assuming you are not positioned between magnetic north and true north at the north pole. air navigation charts are updated regularly partly because magnetic north is constantly shifting in relation to true north.


It was a news clip on You tube. I forgot to put the link in there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23uwKo6vd0Y

jrbogie's photo
Mon 09/26/11 05:28 AM
that worked. yes, runway renumbering does seem to be more frequent in the last few years. the faa issued a notam [notice to airmen] a few years ago for pilots to stay abreast of the situation. nothing new. but you asked if our compasses have been changing and the answer is no they haven't changed in the least. they always point to magnetic north. wherever that may be today. lol.

no photo
Mon 09/26/11 11:55 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 09/26/11 11:55 AM

that worked. yes, runway renumbering does seem to be more frequent in the last few years. the faa issued a notam [notice to airmen] a few years ago for pilots to stay abreast of the situation. nothing new. but you asked if our compasses have been changing and the answer is no they haven't changed in the least. they always point to magnetic north. wherever that may be today. lol.


I was looking for my compass to check it out and I haven't found it yet. Last time I checked, it hadn't changed much. In my mind it looks like it points a bit north east, but that is only because I envision north to be the road that leads to Lamar from Springfield.
It is depicted as "north" on road maps. But maybe the road is actually going a bit north west. The compass points a bit to the east compared to the road.

jrbogie's photo
Mon 09/26/11 04:51 PM
yes, in colorado your compass will point about seven dergrees east of true north if i remember correctly. as mangnetic north continues it's shift that will change but your compass will always point directly toward magnetic north. think "west is best, east is least" or add the deviation error when the compass points west of true north and subtract, seven degrees in your case, to correct an east variation. so if you want to go towards the north pole, instead of heading 360 degrees on your compass you'd pick up a heading of 353 degrees.

no photo
Mon 09/26/11 06:41 PM
So its moving 40 miles a year... If you live 3,000 miles away from the pole, then you are looking at the angle whose tangent is 40/3,000...thats a very small angle.

In the scale of geological time, its fast!

And when it comes to using directions for orienteering, sailing, flying, etc, small angles really matter!

But as far as looking at your compass and seeing how much its changed in the last year - its not going to be very much.

boredinaz06's photo
Mon 09/26/11 06:47 PM


Poles constantly move, magnetic charge topology has shown the poles to move thousands of miles in the past. As for compasses acting erratically it would take a considerable shift; however, minute pulsation in compasses has been noticed for about a decade.

jrbogie's photo
Tue 09/27/11 03:38 AM
as regards flying, magnetic or what we call "whisky" compasses are pretty much becoming a thing of the past. with the advent of computers and particularly gps a modern airliner does not even have a compass that will point towards magnetic north. even emergency compasses no longer dangle from the windshield while bobbing around in a fluid.

ThatMysteryGuy's photo
Thu 10/06/11 08:39 PM
What would happen if the poles shifted in 24 hours?

jrbogie's photo
Fri 10/07/11 07:16 AM
the magnetic poles shift constantly. every twenty four hours they are in a slightly different position than the day before. barely measurable of course but the shift is there. but when you ask, 'what would happen', are you referring to navigation, the effect on electrical devises, solar radiation, the northern lights?

no photo
Fri 10/07/11 09:07 AM
I thought he might have meant 'reversed' instead of 'shifted'.

no photo
Fri 10/07/11 09:33 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 10/07/11 09:38 AM

So its moving 40 miles a year... If you live 3,000 miles away from the pole, then you are looking at the angle whose tangent is 40/3,000...thats a very small angle.

In the scale of geological time, its fast!

And when it comes to using directions for orienteering, sailing, flying, etc, small angles really matter!

But as far as looking at your compass and seeing how much its changed in the last year - its not going to be very much.



Maybe in the last year, but I am 62 years old and if memory serves me well, I remember when it used to point to north on the compass and now it points a bit north east. Like if north is 12:00 on a clock, the compass, where I am, points to 1:00.

Now if Denver is North and I was walking and I followed this compass I would miss Denver by a long shot going in that direction.

I know it "says" north, but north ain't the same as it used to be.








jrbogie's photo
Sun 10/09/11 04:05 AM

I thought he might have meant 'reversed' instead of 'shifted'.


ah. in that case i guess australia would no longer be down under. lol.

Conrad_73's photo
Sun 10/09/11 04:31 AM
Your Magnetic Compass will always point NORTH,no matter where Magnetic North shifts to!
That's why Naval and Aeronautical Charts are updated to show the Deviation between Geographical and Magnetic North!
There are a few Spots on this Earth where a Magnetic Compass points to true North,owing to magnetic anomalies of those Regions!

jrbogie's photo
Sun 10/09/11 05:41 AM
a compass will always point to MAGNETIC north, conrad. not to TRUE north. in fact a magnetic compass is all but useless for navigating the extreme northern latitudes. with the invention of gps and other lrn systems, the mag compass is pretty much useless anywhere anymore.

AdventureBegins's photo
Sun 10/09/11 05:42 AM


So its moving 40 miles a year... If you live 3,000 miles away from the pole, then you are looking at the angle whose tangent is 40/3,000...thats a very small angle.

In the scale of geological time, its fast!

And when it comes to using directions for orienteering, sailing, flying, etc, small angles really matter!

But as far as looking at your compass and seeing how much its changed in the last year - its not going to be very much.



Maybe in the last year, but I am 62 years old and if memory serves me well, I remember when it used to point to north on the compass and now it points a bit north east. Like if north is 12:00 on a clock, the compass, where I am, points to 1:00.

Now if Denver is North and I was walking and I followed this compass I would miss Denver by a long shot going in that direction.

I know it "says" north, but north ain't the same as it used to be.


JB- if you started from say Central America and attempted to go 'north' to Denver using only a compass for navigation... You would miss it every time. (even with out the pole shift of more recent times).

You must also know the 'magnetic deviation' for your area. (which can vary a lot from place to place depending upon the 'local' magnetic field as well as the fact that earths magnetic field rarely 'lines up' with the actual spin axis).

jrbogie's photo
Sun 10/09/11 05:56 AM



So its moving 40 miles a year... If you live 3,000 miles away from the pole, then you are looking at the angle whose tangent is 40/3,000...thats a very small angle.

In the scale of geological time, its fast!

And when it comes to using directions for orienteering, sailing, flying, etc, small angles really matter!

But as far as looking at your compass and seeing how much its changed in the last year - its not going to be very much.



Maybe in the last year, but I am 62 years old and if memory serves me well, I remember when it used to point to north on the compass and now it points a bit north east. Like if north is 12:00 on a clock, the compass, where I am, points to 1:00.

Now if Denver is North and I was walking and I followed this compass I would miss Denver by a long shot going in that direction.

I know it "says" north, but north ain't the same as it used to be.


JB- if you started from say Central America and attempted to go 'north' to Denver using only a compass for navigation... You would miss it every time. (even with out the pole shift of more recent times).

You must also know the 'magnetic deviation' for your area. (which can vary a lot from place to place depending upon the 'local' magnetic field as well as the fact that earths magnetic field rarely 'lines up' with the actual spin axis).


good point. suppose you're standing between the geographical north pole and the magnetic north pole, somewhere in extreme northern canada or wherever. would you follow your compass south to get to warmer climes in miami?

btw, jb, the compass has never pointed directly true north from all points on the planet. not in the sixty two years you've lived nor ever.

no photo
Sun 10/09/11 09:14 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sun 10/09/11 09:20 AM
btw, jb, the compass has never pointed directly true north from all points on the planet. not in the sixty two years you've lived nor ever.


JRboogie,

I know that. I'm am not talking about "from all points on the planet." I'm only talking about from where I am.

JB- if you started from say Central America and attempted to go 'north' to Denver using only a compass for navigation... You would miss it every time. (even with out the pole shift of more recent times).



Adventure,

I'm sure you're right but I am just talking about how much it has changed in the last 60 odd years where it relates going from Pueblo CO to Denver. You may have missed it a little 60 years ago, but now if you follow the compass directly north from Pueblo you might end up in Nebraska.

If you go magnetic north from Springfield CO you will end up in Kansas.

Conrad_73's photo
Sun 10/09/11 09:17 AM

a compass will always point to MAGNETIC north, conrad. not to TRUE north. in fact a magnetic compass is all but useless for navigating the extreme northern latitudes. with the invention of gps and other lrn systems, the mag compass is pretty much useless anywhere anymore.
Actually in the Bahamas and a few more places,Geographic and Magnetic North coincide!
Other Places you have to make the Corrections on the Charts!

Previous 1