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Topic: where is now?
mightymoe's photo
Fri 07/29/11 10:14 PM
Adam Frank
NPR
Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:38 CDT
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© Manu Mejias/ESO
The European Southern Observatory's Very Large Telescope in Chile captured this striking view of the nebula around the star cluster NGC 1929 within the Large Magellanic Cloud, a satellite galaxy of our own Milky Way separated by a mere 179,000 light years.
The night sky is a time machine. Look out and you look back in time. But this "time travel by eyesight" is not just the province of astronomy. It's as close as the machine on which you are reading these words. Your present exists at the mercy of many overlapping pasts. So where, then, is "now"?



As almost everyone knows, when you stare into the depths of space you are also looking back in time. Catch a glimpse of a relatively nearby star and you see it as it existed when, perhaps, Lincoln was president (if it's 150 light-years away). Stars near the edge of our own galaxy are only seen as they appeared when the last ice age was in full bloom (30,000 light-years away). And those giant pinwheel assemblies of stars called galaxies are glimpsed, as they existed millions, hundreds of millions or even billions of years in the past.

We never see the sky as it is, but only as it was.

Stranger still, the sky we see at any moment defines not a single past but multiple overlapping pasts of different depths. The star's image from 100 years ago and the galaxy image from 100 million years ago reach us at the same time. All of those "thens" define the same "now" for us.

The multiple, foliated pasts comprising our present would be weird enough if it was just a matter of astronomy. But the simple truth is that every aspect of our personal "now" is a layered impression of a world already lost to the past.

To understand how this works, consider the simple fact, discussed in last week's post, that all we know about the world comes to us via signals: light waves, sound waves and electrical impulses running along our nerves. These signals move at a finite speed. It always takes some finite amount of time for the signal to travel from the world to your body's sensors (and on to your brain).

A distant galaxy, a distant mountain peak, the not very distant light fixture on the ceiling and even the intimacy of a loved one's face all live in the past. Those overlapping pasts are times that you - in your "now" - are no longer a part of.

Signal travel time constitutes a delay and all those overlapping delays constitute an essential separation. The inner world of your experience is, in a temporal sense, cut off from the outer world you inhabit.

Let's take a few examples. Light travels faster than any other entity in the physical universe, propagating with the tremendous velocity of c = 300,000,000 m/s. From high school physics you know that the time it takes a light signal moving at c to cross some distance D is simply t = D/c.

When you look at the mountain peak 30 kilometers away you see it not as it exists now but as it existed a 1/10,000 of a second ago. The light fixture three meters above your head is seen not as it exists now but as it was a hundred millionth of a second ago. Gazing into your partner's eyes, you see her (or him) not for who they are but for who they were 10-10 of a second in the past. Yes, these numbers are small. Their implication, however, is vast.

We live, each of us, trapped in our own now.

The simple conclusions described above derive, in their way, from relativity theory and they seem to spell the death knell for a philosophical stance called Presentism. According to Presentism only the present moment has ontological validity. In other words: only the present truly exists; only the present is real.

Presentism holds an intuitive sway for many people. It just feels right. For myself, when I try and explore the texture of my own experience, I can't help but feel a sense of the present's dominance. Buddhism, with its emphasis on contemplative introspection, has developed a sophisticated presentist stance concerning the nature of reality. "Anyone who has ever mediated for anytime" the abbot of a Zen monastery once told me "finds that the past and future are illusions."

Yes, but ...

The reality that even light travels at a finite speed forces us to confront the strange fact that, at best, the present exists at the fractured center of many overlapping pasts.

So where, then, are we in time? Where is our "now" and how does it live in the midst of a universe comprised of so many "thens"


Dan99's photo
Fri 07/29/11 11:54 PM
Don't multiple pasts only exist at Quantum level? We all exist in the now, we only observe in the past.

mightymoe's photo
Sat 07/30/11 02:38 AM
while we live in the now, we can see multiple pasts at any one time...

Dan99's photo
Sat 07/30/11 03:49 AM
Only the more philosophical or scientific people would look at it that way though. Above the quantum level there is only one history. Elvis died in 1977 no matter how you look at it. There is no past where he didn't. Not in this universe at least.

mightymoe's photo
Sat 07/30/11 04:01 AM

Only the more philosophical or scientific people would look at it that way though. Above the quantum level there is only one history. Elvis died in 1977 no matter how you look at it. There is no past where he didn't. Not in this universe at least.


yes, there is only one past, in a sense... but we can see multiple points in that past, thus saying that we are looking at multiple pasts. if someone was looking at our planet from different points in the universe, they might see elvis die multiple times, depending on where they are at in the universe.

jrbogie's photo
Sat 07/30/11 04:30 AM
'where is now?' seems the question should be 'when is now?'

mightymoe's photo
Sat 07/30/11 11:01 AM

'where is now?' seems the question should be 'when is now?'


maybe, but the now is looking at multiple points in the past...

no photo
Sat 07/30/11 05:56 PM
I love that question. I have the answer.

Now is HERE.

:banana: :banana: :banana:

Prove me wrong... laugh laugh

no photo
Sat 07/30/11 06:43 PM

rye cheer


laugh laugh :thumbsup:

no photo
Sat 07/30/11 06:45 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 07/30/11 06:45 PM

'where is now?' seems the question should be 'when is now?'


Nope.

"Where is now?' is the right question.

Now is right here.

burgundybry's photo
Sat 07/30/11 06:55 PM
http://youtu.be/gNIwlRClHsQ

sorry moe, couldn't resist, laugh laugh

mightymoe's photo
Sat 07/30/11 07:00 PM

http://youtu.be/gNIwlRClHsQ

sorry moe, couldn't resist, laugh laugh


the schwartz is going to get you...laugh laugh laugh laugh

mightymoe's photo
Sat 07/30/11 07:35 PM

I love that question. I have the answer.

Now is HERE.

:banana: :banana: :banana:

Prove me wrong... laugh laugh


if we were talk with a species that was 100 lights years away, then now would be 100 years in the past...smokin

no photo
Sat 07/30/11 08:04 PM


I love that question. I have the answer.

Now is HERE.

:banana: :banana: :banana:

Prove me wrong... laugh laugh


if we were talk with a species that was 100 lights years away, then now would be 100 years in the past...smokin


Yes, if we sent a message into space and it traveled 100 light years, and reached a another species, we would all be dead by then.

no photo
Sat 07/30/11 08:05 PM
But "now" is always "here."

No matter where I go, I am always here now.

I can't escape that.

CowboyGH's photo
Sat 07/30/11 09:15 PM
There really is no "now". We don't process things fast enough to know the "now". We only know the past. You get pinched, does the pain effect you right right right away? Or is there at least a second delay in the response? That second delay in response would then put it in the past. All we have is the past and the future.

mightymoe's photo
Sat 07/30/11 09:41 PM
Edited by mightymoe on Sat 07/30/11 09:41 PM

There really is no "now". We don't process things fast enough to know the "now". We only know the past. You get pinched, does the pain effect you right right right away? Or is there at least a second delay in the response? That second delay in response would then put it in the past. All we have is the past and the future.


agreed, now is just a perception of what we think it is...

no photo
Sat 07/30/11 10:18 PM
The past is only a memory. The future only a possibility.

Nothing exists in the past, you can't do anything in the past or the future. If take action, you have to take action now, in the present.

Events don't happen in the past, or the future. They happen NOW.

Now infinity because there is no beginning or ending in NOW.

Infinity is in this very moment.


mightymoe's photo
Sat 07/30/11 10:30 PM

The past is only a memory. The future only a possibility.

Nothing exists in the past, you can't do anything in the past or the future. If take action, you have to take action now, in the present.

Events don't happen in the past, or the future. They happen NOW.

Now infinity because there is no beginning or ending in NOW.

Infinity is in this very moment.




we are always living in the past, because light and sound travels at a certain speed, even if it is a billionth of a second... "now" is a perception

no photo
Sat 07/30/11 10:38 PM


The past is only a memory. The future only a possibility.

Nothing exists in the past, you can't do anything in the past or the future. If take action, you have to take action now, in the present.

Events don't happen in the past, or the future. They happen NOW.

Now infinity because there is no beginning or ending in NOW.

Infinity is in this very moment.




we are always living in the past, because light and sound travels at a certain speed, even if it is a billionth of a second... "now" is a perception


Just because our response to stimuli is slow does not mean we live in the past.laugh laugh

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