My chart shows all taxes paid as measured against income for each incremnt of income bracket. You mention sales taxes. This is a psrt of total taxes paid that, if added to a flat income tax, would make taxes even more regressive. Terrible idea.

You are ablsolutely entitled to your opinions, no matter how crappy they are.

And you are entitled to be a liberal as you choose to be. And your chart does not include all taxation we suffer. Again you use fallacious arguments and fallacious evidence to prove a dubious case.

Oh, and you don't use a spell checker either. At least with a flat tax we could do away with the other taxation that is chocking America.

And I suppose you once upon a time supported "trickle down economics" too? Well that was a lie too! At least my opinion is backed with education. I know economics. I also see things you clearly don't. If you could equate the exploitation illegal immigration presents you would see the evil of the DNC as well. Not like the GOP is any better but it is funny how real evil pretends to not be.

If you go to the original source for the chart, you will see the figures from where the cahrt was derives. You will also find the note, "1. Taxes include all federal, state & local taxes (personal and corporate income, payroll, property, sales, excise, estate etc.)."

State taxation is different state to state! It doesn't even go into tariffs, licensing, and on top of that does not subdivide between "direct" and "indirect" taxation. The tax structure we have is biased to protect the rich and the poor and screw the middle class! Your chart cannot explain that phenomenon. Charts are so subjective. You cannot compare what a person pays tax wise who lives in Wyoming to a person who lives in California! We get the living crap taxed out of us! We also pay 10% sales tax. Oregon DOES NOT!


Try again!

No. Oregon has a rather stiff state income tax, instead. This is quite controversial, because sales taxes tend to be much more stable than income taxes. I think it's better because it's more overt and more progressive.
Pretty desperate attempt to undermine the discussion. Do you really think that licensing, and considerations of"direct" and "indirect" taxation.are going to make that much difference in the big picture? As for tariffs, what tariffs do we have with all our free trade agreements, and what do they have to do with tax burdons faced by the the various income brackets? If you want to discuss these factors state-by-state, or in any other way, please be my guest. This chart seems pretty objective to me. It uses real numbers and says exactly what it says. If you wish to challenge what it says, be my guest.

And not taxing them has done exactly the same thing ie current situation. Letting them have free reign has shown by our current situation that it doesn't work.

I don't know where you get this stuff. I have never supported "trickle down economics". I don't know any Liberal who ever did. Arthur Laffer's curve was so obviously bogus, it didn't pass the snicker test. We can all see that you have confidence in your understanding of Economics. This could well be true. I confess that I don't see ghosts or dead people. I believe I've stated only one brief statement about illegal immigration on this message board. What do you think I said?

Current situation is not a result of taxes...

It is a result of spending money that the government actually never had...

It is a result of planning to spend money that the government will never collect.

Not to mention the vast number of people that now feel entitled to privledges they have not earned.

at someones elses expense...

The tax the rich call is balderdash used to cover the excessive spending beyond actual inflow of cash that is the main agenda of liberals... not taking into account the FACT that money you don't have is not SPENDABLE money it is SMOKE.

Seriously the current budget defecit is the lack of taxes collected. The economic elites are the only class that have seen their income grow over the past decade. Their taxes have been cut and it has done nothing to improve the economy and only increased the debt that is the reality here. So rather than change the tax code to the pre reagan era some would rather see grandma eat cat food and slash the wages of public workers and their benefits. Lets close the libraries while were at it.

That's just a silly statement. Taxes collected - money spent = deficit. We can all see that you believe that money spent is the only factor that matters and that taxes collected are of no consequence.

While we are at it lets talk about these wars we were conned into fighting. I can speculate that we wouldnt have such a huge defecit problemb if we werent over there fighting wars for the oil barrons. We truly are a nation of rubes. We allow the media to frame the debate yet ignore the real factors in our economy.

Lack of taxes collected??? Are you for real??? Government spending grew faster than tax revenues could keep pace with! It is a lack of financial responsibility on the government's behalf that is the core of their woes!

The real enemies:
Global business,
Military Industrial Complex,
WALL STREET AND BANKS!
American Apathy,
POOR PEOPLE! NOT POVERTY STRICKEN PEOPLE! THERE IS A HUGE DIFF.
Illegal Immigration,
THE DNC
THE GOP
Political Lobbies
American Energy Companies ie. OIL!
Labor Unions (but that is a 50/50 since some unions are smart enough to take pay cuts and benefit reductions to keep a job!)
Deregulation
Privatization
BATF!!!
DOE
EPA
AQMD
IRS
CIA (now these guys are the vipers among us!)

BUT THE #1 PROBLEM OF THIS COUNTRY IS THE PEOPLE ITSELF! Nothing but a pack of stupid poorly educated SHEEP! Only a few of us see the problems for what they really are.


And Artlo, My mom lived in Oregon for over 20 years. I know about the tax status there. One of the differences is that Oregon does not loose all their money to welfare like California does. If I remember right it was in the 1990's when Oregon spent a huge amount of money rebuilding bridges and fixing highways. Oregon does things with its tax money that makes sense, not hand it out to illegal immigrants to feed their kids on OUR TAX DOLLARS!

That is something YOUR charts do not reflect is government spending and government losses.


The government finances are akin to a leaking boat. Now the bilge pumps on the boat can't keep up with the water filling the boat and it is sinking. Feeling like being the one to bail out this country from its mess? My answer you would not like at all and it involves locking Congress in the capital until they get us in the black again. It also includes the use of corporal force in the event any of them felt belligerent, as in dragged in by marines and Federal Marshals. I would take a chain saw to government spending and end all the entitlements and all the subsidies for starters. And KISS THE FEDERAL RESERVE GOODBYE under my plan. I also would push like hell to remove a corporation's right to vote at all! if you are NOT a living breathing entity that is here legally you don't get to vote! PERIOD!

Unlike most of these know it all mud heads I have a plan that would work but it involves literally putting a gun to people's heads under threat of being "fired" if they don't get their shitte together. Roman families played far too many politics behind the scenes. People were allowed to live under the codes of civility only to plunge Rome repeatedly into civil war. No, mu plan involves putting a governmental regulated leash on those bastards and a behind the scenes, "Try a JFK on me and I have ALL OF YOU KILLED INCLUDING YOUR WIVES, CHILDREN, LOVERS AND FRIENDS! And you will be forced to watch them die before you die!" just to make sure they all keep each other honest. Then again I come from the 'Ming The Merciless School of Despotism and Planetary Rule and Conquest!'

The only way to deal with evil people is to put them under your boot and crush them if they step out of line! I read the principles of rule and it had human nature DOWN!

But what do I know, I am just an Aquarium Technician!

How nice for her. You are getting awfully far afield from what we were talking about. The that I offered wasn't intended to throw light on Oregon's tax structure, or the BATF, or the EPA or any of these other theories of yours. It is intended to indicate the total tax burdens measured against the incomes of the various income brackets.

(The 90s were good for the economies of all the states. Oregon did spend wisely on some infrastructure. That tends to happen under good Progressive Governors. Poor California has had to suffer under Republican Governors since 1983. Before that, it was a pretty good state.)

Some parts of your screed may be true. Some probably aren't. But none of it changes the fact that taxes, as they currently exist, are slightly progressive. A flat tax would make overall taxes more regressive. Terrible idea.

County, district, city, township, incorporated area... personel, business, corporate...

Much more tax out there then most really know.

Some grew... Some shrank... Some lost it all...

Reckon that would be about the same as the rest of us.

Don't by the class war balderdash.

So rather than change the tax code to something out of a nightmare...

Roll it back to the industrial reveloution...

and lets make a new world...

Americans have that capability.

if you remove the shackles.

Money spent is money spent...

Money spent in excess of taxes = stupidity.

If I spent my income at a higher rate then my income I live in a cardboard box right quick.

Costs less to fight than it does to sit here and rebuild our cities every few months.

Will be easer to find an exit stratgy now that the rest of the world has caught the quantum thought of freedom.

Enough people in the rest of the world are standing up for it that we may be able to come home soon...

and ignite the next technical revolution...

win the future...

"My answer you would not like at all and it involves locking Congress in the capital until they get us in the black again."

This is where those 'protesters' need to assemble to Peacfull Redress of Grievence.

Not at the state level... (cause that ain't where the problem is)
Not as a Union, or a Tea Party, (each wanting something a bit different) but as Americans (needing our Politicians to GET to work... )

But at the federal... Cause the 'top' part is broke.

Not with 'capital' force... But by the will of the people...

I got a sleeping bag...

Kinda hard to LEAVE till the jobs done if you have to step on people to get out.

Someone that G. Beck keeps quoting was right.

Bottom up... Cause the 'top' part is broke...

But the 'heart' part we all got plenty off.

More people should realize it is a class war. What else can it be when the rich pass laws to make themselves richer when the rest of us get poorer and poorer. This is the reality. If we go along with with cutting benefits and wages to the middle class while top 2% continue to enrich themselves we will be reduced to hopeing they let us lick up whatever they accidently spill.