Topic: Purgatory
Abracadabra's photo
Thu 02/17/11 01:50 PM
For those who believe in purgatory I have a few questions:

First off, if you are sent to purgatory does this mean that you are basically guaranteed to eventually end up in heaven? Or can you potentially fall from purgatory into the pits of hell?

In other words, is it like a "second chance", or simply a purging and purification process. If the former, then you could potentially fail the "second chance", if the latter, then you're basically granted entrance into heaven and just need to finish purging a view things first?

Secondly, can anyone post any actual passages from the Bible that specifically reference the concept of purgatory? Where did this word come from? Does it come from the Old Testament, or the New Testament, or from somewhere else?

I just did a search on the King James Version of the Bible and I could not find any use of the actual word "purgatory". So I'm curious where this concept and word originated from.

Thanks


AndyBgood's photo
Thu 02/17/11 03:29 PM
For all intents and purposes I feel this life we are in IS purgatory! It isn't heaven and it sure is almost like hell!

no photo
Thu 02/17/11 04:08 PM
the catechism of the catholic church might shed some light on the question you have about purgatory.

1030 all who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven

1031 the Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. the Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. the tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture speaks of a cleansing fire.

the king james version of the bible will not have an example of this because that version excludes the apocrypha.

II Maccabees 12:43-46: "And making a gathering, he [Judas] sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins."


Dragoness's photo
Thu 02/17/11 04:17 PM

For those who believe in purgatory I have a few questions:

First off, if you are sent to purgatory does this mean that you are basically guaranteed to eventually end up in heaven? Or can you potentially fall from purgatory into the pits of hell?

In other words, is it like a "second chance", or simply a purging and purification process. If the former, then you could potentially fail the "second chance", if the latter, then you're basically granted entrance into heaven and just need to finish purging a view things first?

Secondly, can anyone post any actual passages from the Bible that specifically reference the concept of purgatory? Where did this word come from? Does it come from the Old Testament, or the New Testament, or from somewhere else?

I just did a search on the King James Version of the Bible and I could not find any use of the actual word "purgatory". So I'm curious where this concept and word originated from.

Thanks




From my teachings purgatory is limbo. When Jesus comes to claim those who are his they will be judged. So they weren't good enough to be in heaven right away or bad enough to be in hell right away so they have to wait for the end judgement.

It is pure craziness to believe it as truth.

Now the stories as stories are interesting.

I like the stories of the guf like in the movie the Seventh Sign. Very interesting stories.

Dragoness's photo
Thu 02/17/11 04:18 PM
Some in my family pray for those in purgatory regularly.

Abracadabra's photo
Thu 02/17/11 04:42 PM

From my teachings purgatory is limbo. When Jesus comes to claim those who are his they will be judged. So they weren't good enough to be in heaven right away or bad enough to be in hell right away so they have to wait for the end judgement.


Now that you've mentioned this I do recall having heard it explained this way before by a Catholic. If that's the case, then they could indeed be judged either way, so in this scenario purgatory is neither an assurance of going to heaven nor is it a process of purification. It's just a limbo state that must be endured until a final judgment can be made.

Well this certainly conflicts with some ideas I've read about it being a means or state of final purification.

But then we have this:


1030 all who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven


Which appears to be the official Catholic Church view on the matter. This certainly implies that judgment has already been made that the person will ultimately be accepted into heaven, and it's just a matter of some final purification.

I was just curious about how various people view this concept.

markumX's photo
Thu 02/17/11 06:46 PM
Purgatory came from a crackpot theory by the catholic church. There's no evidence in any religious texts that support this..it's more or less a "hope" that such a place exists.
The mormons believe in a place similar to this where by ghost missionaries try to convert them to their religion which by then they send telepathic messages to those that run the temples in which then someone gets baptized in your name thereby by making you a mormon out of your own free will.