Not really a matter of yes or no.

The ancient Hebrews, the Israelites, thought themselves to be the Chosen of God. There existed laws which Israelites were expected to maintain. Amongst these was the law of circumcision which represented the covenant between God and Abraham.

To these ancient Jews there was a clear division of the worlds population of which the Israelites were the Chosen and everyone else was Gentile. (not really the words or terms they used, that’s just how it was translated later). At any rate the rituals surrounding circumcision and the circumcision itself represented fulfillment of ‘their’ part of the covenant.

It not only represented adherence to the covenant, it actually provided a physical mark, which identified individuals as belonging to the patriarchal lineage of Abraham and thus as one of the Chosen.

When Mosaic law was adopted, circumcision was not part of that law. This created a controversy between the Jews who held to the original law and those who followed Mosaic. Eventually it was decided the original law should be reinstated. But not only were Jews to be circumcised, gentiles who converted were to be circumcised as well.

This was not good by Israelite standards and the first chasm between ‘Israelites (old covenant) and "Gentile/Jews" (Mosaic Law) evolved.

Later, after Jesus, another controversy arose between those who accepted Jesus’ sacrifice as replacing old covenants (which divided people into 'the Chosen' and gentiles) and uniting all people under one new covenant.

Jews and gentiles alike became believers of Jesus as Lord and savior and because these particular Jews agreed that Jesus had come to unite all people under one new law, except the Jews who refused to accept this idea, became united under the term ‘gentiles’.

To the Israelite Jews, the new Christians, were indeed gentiles because they no longer followed the law and covenants given by God.

- Here’s the tricky part. To Israelites, the term gentiles (or their word for it) had very negative connotations, for one the lineage of the Israelites had to be maintained (ethnich/racial purity) and in the covenant of Abraham (circumcision) was the mark of the pure lineage.

So in this sense, Christians joined the ranks to which all gentiles were assigned, which included pagans.

So back to your question – it’s not that they (Christians) didn’t worship the same God, but that they deviated from proper worship practices and mixed thier blood with the 'uncircumcised'. If they didn’t follow the law they were following something else and it was not ‘of God’. And when they mixed their blood, they lost their heritage and were no longer part of the Chosen.

The second question:


Yes, which is what I was trying to explain in my previous post.

BUT, there is one more thing – Remember that those who deviated from their Jewish heritage, either believed in the concept that Jesus came to unite all people, which is why other gentiles could now be converted
OR,
this was a much needed ploy for the conversion of huge numbers of people. Think in terms of media evangelicals in our current times. $$$ & power.

After all, consider the alternative, all male adults wanting to convert would have had to go through circumcision. Not something most normal adult males would take lightly, especially with no anesthetic.

Of course, the strategy of bringing new converts did not stop there. The new Christian belief was touted as a single unifying covenant – abolishing the ‘original Old Testament law and the only thing that needed to be retained from it was the much modified (from 613 to) 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments – except the 4 that refer to God – are typical civil requirements for any society. So the new religion was a clean slate that could be sold to rulers and those in seats of power.

From there is was just a matter of incorporating some pagan rituals and before too long, whole Empires were being Christianized. The 4 commandments referring to God were easier to swallow by converts, to them the Christian God, who could convert entire empires was greater than their own anyway. So they just inserted a higher ranking god in there rituals.

NOW, they are all pagans - except for the Jews who continue to believe in the old covenants, even though they can no longer practice all teh 613 commandments.



Well, I don’t know of any Hebrews who could follow the teachings of Jesus, any better than anyone else can. Only because the writings we have available from which to form this concept would require just as much interpretation and assumption as current Christians use.

In other words, the context in which Jesus’ actions and teachings are presented is so severely distorted and contradictory that whatever his mission was could only be determined through applying a biased ‘pretext’.

That reminds me - what did you think of my interpretation of Proverbs.

Becasue according to me, you just told Abra to seek wisdom in the Bible.

I conclude there is little wisdom to be had there.

1. Thank God for everything...


Christians do this.


2. Seek knowledge...


All knowledge is in the bible. Anything that benefits of anything is in the bible.


3. Stop being so damn selfish, drop your ego...


As a Christian we are to help others when they are in need help them even before we help ourselves.


4. Love everyone...


Christians hate no one. We are all the same in this world. We are all sinners and fall short in the glory of God. No one's better, no one's worse. Christians love EVERYONE more then they love themselves.

5. Stop worrying about how you "appear" to others, both appearance and actions...


Our appearance has no importance of anything. We aren't here to please other people, especially their eyes with how we appear. We are here to please our Father which art in heaven.

6. Help others whenever you can...


We help ANYONE in need, regardless if their Godly beliefs, sexual orientation, personal background, ethnicity, doesn't matter. we help EVERYONE.

7. Worry less about others' and more about your own faults...


We worry nothing about other peoples faults. God specifically tells us not to judge others. If we judge others we will be judged with the same harshness.

8. Everybody's worthy of eternal life...

Yes EVERYONE has a chance to enjoy the gift of heaven. It is there for everyone.

I really couldn't care less about having any conversations with you.

I bounced off your last comment simply because I felt that it describes precisely how Christians think in general:

You stated:



I simply expanded on that thought to show that this is precisely what all Christianity is about. It's nothing more than people holding out their personal opinions about an ancient mythology as being the "Only True Christianity" all the while pretending that they aren't even saying that, but then ending with things like "Because those that I would offend aren't actually Christian"

That's just so typical of precisely what Christians do in general and precisely why they have become such a fragmented, divisive, and confused religion as a whole. Even they renounce each others beliefs as being false or untrue.

There's no substance to the religion. All it amounts to are so-called "Christians" calling each other fakes.

That can hardly be seen as a productive or constructive spirituality.

I think you should have backed it up with facts instead of a statement riddled with (scripture) in quotes.

That's exactly what I was thinking. God could be the homeless guy sitting on the corner wanting some change to get a double cheese burger from McDonald's.

Yes God could be, God could be a homeless little kid that comes up for 50 cents, God could and can be anywhere and everywhere.

Everyone is God.

Pantheism is the only spirituality that can be true and it's what Jesus himself taught. "Whatever you do to the least of your brothren you do unto me". Why? Because we are all ONE. Jesus was teaching pantheism, not egotism.

This image of jealous egotistical hateful God who threatens to extinquish souls or cast them into eternal damnation is nothing more than the falacy of man's own imagination.

We are God. Jesus taught this same thing, "I and the Father are one". That applies to everyone, not just Jesus. The Christians took the words of Jesus and twisted them to turn him into a hate machine. It's the most hateful religion on Earth, all because they missed the point of what Jesus was actually teaching, which was indeed pantheism.

If you believe that you are not God, then what are you? To be something other than God would mean that you'd have to be a seperate entity in your OWN right.

Seperatism doesn't work. It makes no sense at all. The Eastern Mystics hold the only true wisdom, and as far as I'm concerned, that's precisely what Jesus himself was attempting to teach.

Even the authors of the gospels confess that Jesus was often telling his own deciples that they don't understand what he is saying, yet they pretend that they understood?

It's a real shame that the beautiful teachings of Jesus had to end up giving rise to such a hateful bigoted religion that only causes people to believe that they are seperate from God and from each other. It just causes divisiveness to the most extreme degree.

Of course, EVERYONE you meet is God!

Just like Jesus said, "Whatever you do to the least of your brothren you do unto me". If you think any person isn't God, that's your own folly. Everyone you meet is God. "I and the Father are one", applies to everyone, not just Jesus.

Well, if the only thing he considers to be an 'honest' discussion is when people agree that only the Bible contains wisdom then he's defining his own meaning of 'honesty'.

I personally feel that anyone who refuses to look outside of the Bible for wisdom is being dishonest with themselves.



Well the real irony of this whole fable is at the end in Revelations John writes the following:

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

At the end of the story they have God remarrying the Jews.

He's not marrying the Christians, but the Jews!

This whole tale is entirely focused on the Israelites right to the very end of the tale, even in the Christian 'version' of it in the last book of the New Testament. I guess the original Christians who put together this cannon weren't thinking very clearly when the allowed Revelations into their New Testament.

Another thing too, in revelations John mentions that the Kings of the Earth, will bring their Glory and honor to this new Holy City that came from Heaven dressed as a Bride for God. But there aren't anymore "Kings" on Earth, at least not in general. Presidents and dictators certainly don't qualify as "Kings" because that not even remotely close to being the same thing. Especially in terms of the kind of "Honor" that's being referred to here.

This ancient Biblical view of an egotistical God who marries a nation, divorces it, and then comes back to remarry it again, is truly just an ancient archaic fable that cannot possibly hold any truth in reality.

There is no 'honesty' to be had in this fable. It's just a man's dream. In fact, it's just the dream of one solitary man; John.

It's truly a shame that this ancient fable grew to have such a strong impact on modern society because we'd have been far better off had we adopted the pantheistic view and that view became mainstream. It would be far better understood by everyone, and we wouldn't have all this religious bigotry and hate rhetoric going on now in the name of these convoluted Abrahamic religions and also being held up by the Christians in the name of Jesus. That's the saddest part of all because Jesus was actually trying to 'save' the world from precisely what the Christians turned him into. Jesus was teaching pantheism but the Christians just used him to prop up the very things that Jesus himself preached against.

Now there's some honesty for you. Genuine heartfelt honesty given in the truest spirit of hoping that everyone can find a spirituality that unites all of us through love and a feeling of unity, rather than this constant need to use Jesus as a battering ram for bigotry and brotherly hate. When is that going to stop?

It's never going to stop as long as people continue to hold Jesus up as the 'ultimate judge' whilst simultaneously proclaiming that only they hold the truth of what Jesus stood for. Can they not see the folly in this?

We are God's. If you'll notice Jesus NEVER calls our father "God". Our father only got the title God because of atheists and people of false beliefs. They categorized it all so that it would be simple and understandable by atheists and other false beliefs. Our father is our father and we are the God's of the earth. We grow the plants, we raise the animals, heck we can move mountains.No other substantial being on earth can do as such.

Disregard this particular post. Looked a little deeper into it and learned that Jesus had refered to our Father as God. And i tried to edit and fix this, but it posted it in a new reply. Sorry for the confusion.

when Jesus said that one could only get to God through him he was preaching egotism ....when it was preached that Jesus did not come to change the laws of Moses but to full-fill the laws this was used as a way to break away from the Abrahamic God of the Old Testament and this is why Catholicism aka Christianity is a pagan cult..this can be proved when Jesus proclaim all Men to be Gods which is clearly blashpemy and "pantheism"

Oh but we are all God's. Think about it for a second, here's a few examples to show what i'm get'n at.

This is a reproducing table, the parents on the left and what they reproduce on the right.

Cats - cats
Dogs - Dogs
Birds - Birds

See the patern?...... so it would only make sence if we are all God's created by our father. So with that established we can finish the chart

Cats - Cats
Dogs - Dogs
Birds - Birds
God - Gods

But who created god?

And then who created that god?

And then who created that god?

And then who created that god?

Into infinite>>>>>>>>>>>>

Nothing created God, God always has been and always will be. God is the Alpha and Omega, the begining and the end.

Not.

yes it makes sense but unfortunately the only sense it makes is "non-sense" ....besides you clearly wrote the pattern wrong and left out a couple of things ....it should read this way

Cat - Cats - Felines
Dog - Dogs - Canines
Bird - Birds - Aves
Man - Men - Humans
God - Elohim - Supernatural or technologically advanced entites
Father - Baby Daddies - sperm donors

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?