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Topic: Acid oceans: the 'evil twin' of climate change
Fanta46's photo
Fri 12/18/09 10:18 AM
MONTEREY BAY NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY, Calif. – Far from Copenhagen's turbulent climate talks, the sea lions, harbor seals and sea otters reposing along the shoreline and kelp forests of this protected marine area stand to gain from any global deal to cut greenhouse gases.

These foragers of the sanctuary's frigid waters, flipping in and out of sight of California's coastal kayakers, may not seem like obvious beneficiaries of a climate treaty crafted in the Danish capital. But reducing carbon emissions worldwide also would help mend a lesser-known environmental problem: ocean acidification.

"We're having a change in water chemistry, so 20 years from now the system we're looking at could be affected dramatically but we're not really sure how. So we see a train wreck coming," said Andrew DeVogelaere, the sanctuary's research director, while out kayaking this fall with a reporter in the cold waters.

Nothing in the treaty negotiations specifically addresses the effects of carbon absorption in the oceans on marine life, which studies show is damaging key creatures' hard shells or skeletons.

Oceans absorb about 25 percent of the world's greenhouse gases pumped into the atmosphere from human activities each year, says a new U.N. report released at the Copenhagen talks this week. That helps slow global warming in the atmosphere, the focus of the Copenhagen talks.

But carbon dissolving in oceans also forms carbonic acid, raising waters' acidity that damages all manner of hard-shelled creatures, and setting off a chain reaction that threatens the food chain supporting marine life, including the lumbering sea mammals along the 276-mile coast of the California sanctuary and the rest of the U.S. West Coast.

By 2100, the report said, some 70 percent of cold water corals — a key refuge and feeding ground for commercially popular fish that also are food for the seals and otters — will be exposed to the harmful effects.

Ocean acidity could increase 150 percent just by mid-century, according to the report by the Secretariat of the U.N. Convention on Biological Diversity.

"This dramatic increase is 100 times faster than any change in acidity experienced in the marine environment over the last 20 million years, giving little time for evolutionary adaptation within biological systems," it said.

The average acidity of oceans' surface water is estimated to increase measurably by the end of the century and will affect marine life, according to Peter Brewer, a senior scientist at the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute.

"The total quantity of carbon dioxide that we've put into the oceans today is around 530 billion tons," Brewer told journalists on a fall fellowship program with the Honolulu-based East-West Center. "Now, it's going up at about 1 million tons an hour. You can't keep doing that without it having some impact."

And Brewer, a member of the Nobel Peace Prize-winning U.N. scientific panel on climate change, said that's only part of the story.

"The trouble is, there's more than one thing going on," he said, citing other effects of climate change that bring, for example, "milder winters, so the deep ocean is getting less oxygen down there."

Given the importance of marine life — some 1 billion people depend on fish as their primary source of protein — climate experts and researchers at the treaty talks have sought to draw more attention to the problem. They call it a particularly important — but largely overlooked — reason for nations to agree on a new climate accord.

In Copenhagen, Jane Lubchenco, head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which manages the sanctuary, said global cuts in greenhouse gases are needed to limit the "blue" carbon absorbed by oceans.

She said the Copenhagen talks have focused on other types of carbon — the "brown" variety from industrial warming gases released by fossil fuel burning, the "green" carbon from burning and chopping down tropical rainforests — but there has been little focus on helping the oceans.

"It's important to recognize that carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is also being absorbed by oceans, and that makes oceans more acidic," Lubchenco told AP.

"I call this ocean acidification climate change's equally evil twin, if you will," she said. "And part of the need to reduce carbon emissions is to both slow down the rate of climate change but also to start repairing the damage that is being done to oceans."

Lubchenco pointed to the harmful effects of carbon absorption in the oceans as decreasing the amount of calcium carbonate that can be used by marine creatures to construct shells or skeletons.

"As the oceans become more acidic, it's harder for corals, oysters, clams, crabs, mussels, lobsters to make their shells or their hard parts, and they dissolve faster," she said.

"So ocean acidification, which is a relatively unappreciated problem, is as important as climate change. It's one that most people haven't heard of. Another way to think of ocean acidification is as osteoporosis of the seas."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091218/ap_on_sc/climate_blue_carbon;_
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BvcwM3BHBvcwM3BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDYWNpZG9jZWFuc3Ro

no photo
Fri 12/18/09 10:30 AM
Lions that have evolved in the past 20 years to dwarf their mainland cousins.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-392292/The-superlions-marooned-island.html

These fear tactics from the left are getting old. They are simply trying to herd the sheeple into obeying them.

The ocean will be fine. Life will continue. Nothing to see here.

Fanta46's photo
Fri 12/18/09 11:39 AM
"This dramatic increase is 100 times faster than any change in acidity experienced in the marine environment over the last 20 million years, giving little time for evolutionary adaptation within biological systems," it said.

The average acidity of oceans' surface water is estimated to increase measurably by the end of the century and will affect marine life, according to Peter Brewer, a senior scientist at the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute.

"The total quantity of carbon dioxide that we've put into the oceans today is around 530 billion tons," Brewer told journalists on a fall fellowship program with the Honolulu-based East-West Center. "Now, it's going up at about 1 million tons an hour. You can't keep doing that without it having some impact."


100 times faster.
We've never seen this rapid of a change.
Not in the last 20 million years.

Fanta46's photo
Fri 12/18/09 11:42 AM
You're right spider. There is nothing to see. Your link isn't even related.


offtopic

boredinaz06's photo
Fri 12/18/09 11:55 AM


You can dump only so much garbage, raw sewage, and chemicals into the oceans until the oceans become a festering pool of toxic waste itself. There's an overabundance of ignorant uninformed people out there who think the earth will miraculously heal itself. The environment can heal itself to a degree, but there is a point of critical mass that can and will be attained in the name of bottom line profit at which point the environment cannot help itself. Because of this is why there are re-introduction and reclamation projects that occur world wide. I know this is something that some people just cannot handle and for the record I'm not some hippy leftist wing nut either. I spend a lot of time outdoors hunting and fishing and can see changes where I do these things and it is sickening what people will do for money, environmental and wildlife issues are 100% political and politicians don't care because there is no money is saving wildlife or habitat.

Fanta46's photo
Fri 12/18/09 12:02 PM



You can dump only so much garbage, raw sewage, and chemicals into the oceans until the oceans become a festering pool of toxic waste itself. There's an overabundance of ignorant uninformed people out there who think the earth will miraculously heal itself. The environment can heal itself to a degree, but there is a point of critical mass that can and will be attained in the name of bottom line profit at which point the environment cannot help itself. Because of this is why there are re-introduction and reclamation projects that occur world wide. I know this is something that some people just cannot handle and for the record I'm not some hippy leftist wing nut either. I spend a lot of time outdoors hunting and fishing and can see changes where I do these things and it is sickening what people will do for money, environmental and wildlife issues are 100% political and politicians don't care because there is no money is saving wildlife or habitat.


Well said!

willing2's photo
Fri 12/18/09 12:11 PM
Bet you can't guess what branch of the Military is guilty of dumping the most toxic materials dumped into the ocean?

no photo
Fri 12/18/09 12:13 PM
The world if full of useful idiots who believe everything their master Al Gore says and will obey him in his every command.

willing2's photo
Fri 12/18/09 12:16 PM

The world if full of useful idiots who believe everything their master Al Gore says and will obey him in his every command.
drinker drinker :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Fanta46's photo
Fri 12/18/09 12:33 PM

The world if full of useful idiots who believe everything their master Al Gore says and will obey him in his every command.


Some ( ) actually believe Al Gore invented climate change.
Some ( )believe he is the lone factor in 28,000 sets of data collected confirming mans effect on climate change.

Some ( ) can't think of any other arguement to add when facts are presented but the same old tired *** line.
It's Al Gore and his Kool-aide.

LMAO

And the Valley Girls say,,

"Whatever"

no photo
Fri 12/18/09 01:51 PM


The world if full of useful idiots who believe everything their master Al Gore says and will obey him in his every command.


Some ( ) actually believe Al Gore invented climate change.
Some ( )believe he is the lone factor in 28,000 sets of data collected confirming mans effect on climate change.

Some ( ) can't think of any other arguement to add when facts are presented but the same old tired *** line.
It's Al Gore and his Kool-aide.

LMAO

And the Valley Girls say,,

"Whatever"


He didn't invent it, but he sure as hell is cashing in on it.

Just like all of the "Climatology" scientists in the world.

Meteorology is a real science, Climatology is junk science and will go the way of Phrenology. Hopefully before the useful idiots cause us to all go broke to fund the climatologists extravagant lifestyles.

Fanta46's photo
Fri 12/18/09 02:54 PM
The only scientists cashing in on Climate Change are the few who are being used to con people like you to believe its a hoax!

They my friend are being payed by Corporations who stand to profit by fooling you into not supporting change and responsibility.

What's a real shame is you have nothing to gain by your skepticism.
You're just a willing pawn!

And the Valley Girls say,

"Whatever"

cottonelle's photo
Fri 12/18/09 03:01 PM
dude, there is acid in the oceans? wow, man, thats far out. i`m going swimming

no photo
Fri 12/18/09 03:02 PM
Mama always says useful idiot is as useful idiot does.

no photo
Fri 12/18/09 03:28 PM

The only scientists cashing in on Climate Change are the few who are being used to con people like you to believe its a hoax!

They my friend are being payed by Corporations who stand to profit by fooling you into not supporting change and responsibility.

What's a real shame is you have nothing to gain by your skepticism.
You're just a willing pawn!

And the Valley Girls say,

"Whatever"


Yup! Corporate profiteers! Same thing is happening with Climate Change as it is with Health Care.


no photo
Fri 12/18/09 04:03 PM
Useful idiot fashion tip:

Take a wig and glue it to your tin foil hat, it will protect you from the mind controlling rays broadcast by the evil corporations.

Fanta46's photo
Fri 12/18/09 04:11 PM


The only scientists cashing in on Climate Change are the few who are being used to con people like you to believe its a hoax!

They my friend are being payed by Corporations who stand to profit by fooling you into not supporting change and responsibility.

What's a real shame is you have nothing to gain by your skepticism.
You're just a willing pawn!

And the Valley Girls say,

"Whatever"


Yup! Corporate profiteers! Same thing is happening with Climate Change as it is with Health Care.




Do you reckon the skeptics think they are actually doing something useful, or just being skeptical for political reasons?

I know they aren't helping themselves or the avg person.
There has to be a reason for aiding their own enemies.

I'm pretty sure I know the answer already but there are certain descriptions the moderators won't allow.

Atlantis75's photo
Sat 12/19/09 02:50 PM
Of course, dumping posions into the oceans are definetely not good, but to blame it on the human made dump alone is also quite stupid.

Undersea robot captures rare deep-sea eruption

The West Mata volcano sits nearly 4,000 feet below the surface of the Pacific in an area bordered by Fiji, Tonga, and Samoa. It was discovered in May by scientists with funding from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Science Foundation. Lucky researchers managed to catch high-definition video of the eruption with the help of a remotely-operated underwater robot named Jason.

Jason's cameras captured masses of lava bubbling up into the cold seawater, chunks of debris breaking off vents and falling to the seafloor, and enormous clouds of volcanic ash billowing into the water.

The discovery is significant for several reasons. For one, it is the deepest erupting volcano ever seen. As marine geologist Bob Embley said, "Since the water pressure at that depth suppresses the violence of the volcano's explosions, we could get the underwater robot within feet of the active eruption. On land, or even in shallow water, you could never hope to get this close and see such great detail."

It's also the first deep-water eruption observed in the last 25 years of submarine volcano research by NOAA and the NSF. In addition, the kind of lava spewing from the West Mata volcano is rare. Known as boninite lava, it's believed to be among the hottest on the planet. Prior to the West Mata discovery, it had only been seen on extinct volcanoes that were more than a million years old.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-10418877-76.html




Volcanic Eruptions Caused Ancient Warming And Cooling




Volcanic eruptions were responsible for a deadly ice age 450 million years ago, as well as — in an ironic twist — a period of global warming that preceded it, a new study finds.

The finding underscores the importance of carbon in Earth's climate today, said study researcher Matthew Saltzman of Ohio State University.

The ancient ice age featured glaciers that covered the South Pole on top of the supercontinent of Gondwana (which would eventually break apart to form the present-day continents of the southern hemisphere). Two-thirds of all species perished in the frigid climate.

Previously, Saltzman and his team linked this same ice age, which took place in the Ordovician period, to the rise of the Appalachian Mountains. As the exposed rock weathered, chemical reactions pulled carbon from Earth's atmosphere, causing the deadly global cooling.

With models, the researchers have now pieced together the other half of the story: Giant volcanoes that formed during the closing of the proto-Atlantic Ocean — known as the Iapetus Ocean — set the stage for the rise of the Appalachians and the ice age that followed.

"Our model shows that these Atlantic volcanoes were spewing carbon into the atmosphere at the same time the Appalachians were removing it," Saltzman said. "For nearly 10 million years, the climate was at a stalemate. Then the eruptions abruptly stopped, and atmospheric carbon levels fell well below what they were in the time before volcanism. That kicked off the ice age."

To figure out this geologic history, Saltzman and his colleagues used computer models to draw together measurements of isotopes of chemical elements from rocks in Nevada, Virginia and Pennsylvania with measurements of volcanic ash beds in the same locations. They also factored in temperature models developed by other scientists.

The ash deposits demonstrated when the volcanoes stopped erupting, and the isotope measurements pinpointed the Appalachians as the source of the volcanic rock.

The new findings mesh well with what scientists know about these ancient proto-Atlantic volcanoes, which are thought to have produced the largest eruptions in Earth's history. They issued enough lava to form the Appalachians, enough ash to cover the far ends of the earth, and enough carbon to heat the globe. Atmospheric carbon levels grew to levels 20 times higher than they are today.

This study shows that when those volcanoes stopped erupting, carbon levels dropped, and the climate swung dramatically back to cold. The timing coincides with today's best estimates of temperature fluctuations in the Ordovician.

The research, partly supported by the National Science Foundation, is detailed in an online edition of the journal Geology and will also appear in a future print edition.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/091027-volcano-ice-age.html



Submarine volcanoes are common features on the ocean floor. Some are active and, in shallow water, disclose their presence by blasting steam and rocky debris high above the surface of the sea. Many others lie at such great depths that the tremendous weight of the water above them prevents the explosive release of steam and gases, although they can be detected by hydrophones and discoloration of water because of volcanic gases. Pumice rafts may also appear. Even large submarine eruptions may not disturb the ocean surface.



The principal components of volcanic gases are water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2), sulfur either as sulfur dioxide (SO2) (high-temperature volcanic gases) or hydrogen sulfide (H2S) (low-temperature volcanic gases), nitrogen, argon, helium, neon, methane, carbon monoxide and hydrogen. Other compounds detected in volcanic gases are oxygen (meteoric), hydrogen chloride, hydrogen fluoride, hydrogen bromide, nitrogen oxide (NOx), sulfur hexafluoride, carbonyl sulfide, and organic compounds. Exotic trace compounds include methyl mercury, halocarbons (including CFCs), and halogen oxide radicals.

The abundance of gases varies considerably from volcano to volcano. However, water vapor is consistently the most common volcanic gas, normally comprising more than 60% of total emissions. Carbon dioxide typically accounts for 10 to 40% of emissions.[1]

Volcanoes located at convergent plate boundaries emit more water vapor and chlorine than volcanoes at hot spots or divergent plate boundaries. This is caused by the addition of seawater into magmas formed at subduction zones. Convergent plate boundary volcanoes also have higher H2O/H2, H2O/CO2, CO2/He and N2/He ratios than hot spot or divergent plate boundary volcanoes.[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_gas


Fanta46's photo
Sat 12/19/09 03:12 PM
No one says it doesn't happen naturally.


"This dramatic increase is 100 times faster than any change in acidity experienced in the marine environment over the last 20 million years, giving little time for evolutionary adaptation within biological systems," it said.

The average acidity of oceans' surface water is estimated to increase measurably by the end of the century and will affect marine life, according to Peter Brewer, a senior scientist at the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute.

"The total quantity of carbon dioxide that we've put into the oceans today is around 530 billion tons," Brewer told journalists on a fall fellowship program with the Honolulu-based East-West Center. "Now, it's going up at about 1 million tons an hour. You can't keep doing that without it having some impact."


100 times faster.
We've never seen this rapid of a change.
Not in the last 20 million years.

metalwing's photo
Sat 12/19/09 03:15 PM

Of course, dumping posions into the oceans are definetely not good, but to blame it on the human made dump alone is also quite stupid.

Undersea robot captures rare deep-sea eruption

The West Mata volcano sits nearly 4,000 feet below the surface of the Pacific in an area bordered by Fiji, Tonga, and Samoa. It was discovered in May by scientists with funding from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Science Foundation. Lucky researchers managed to catch high-definition video of the eruption with the help of a remotely-operated underwater robot named Jason.

Jason's cameras captured masses of lava bubbling up into the cold seawater, chunks of debris breaking off vents and falling to the seafloor, and enormous clouds of volcanic ash billowing into the water.

The discovery is significant for several reasons. For one, it is the deepest erupting volcano ever seen. As marine geologist Bob Embley said, "Since the water pressure at that depth suppresses the violence of the volcano's explosions, we could get the underwater robot within feet of the active eruption. On land, or even in shallow water, you could never hope to get this close and see such great detail."

It's also the first deep-water eruption observed in the last 25 years of submarine volcano research by NOAA and the NSF. In addition, the kind of lava spewing from the West Mata volcano is rare. Known as boninite lava, it's believed to be among the hottest on the planet. Prior to the West Mata discovery, it had only been seen on extinct volcanoes that were more than a million years old.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-10418877-76.html




Volcanic Eruptions Caused Ancient Warming And Cooling




Volcanic eruptions were responsible for a deadly ice age 450 million years ago, as well as — in an ironic twist — a period of global warming that preceded it, a new study finds.

The finding underscores the importance of carbon in Earth's climate today, said study researcher Matthew Saltzman of Ohio State University.

The ancient ice age featured glaciers that covered the South Pole on top of the supercontinent of Gondwana (which would eventually break apart to form the present-day continents of the southern hemisphere). Two-thirds of all species perished in the frigid climate.

Previously, Saltzman and his team linked this same ice age, which took place in the Ordovician period, to the rise of the Appalachian Mountains. As the exposed rock weathered, chemical reactions pulled carbon from Earth's atmosphere, causing the deadly global cooling.

With models, the researchers have now pieced together the other half of the story: Giant volcanoes that formed during the closing of the proto-Atlantic Ocean — known as the Iapetus Ocean — set the stage for the rise of the Appalachians and the ice age that followed.

"Our model shows that these Atlantic volcanoes were spewing carbon into the atmosphere at the same time the Appalachians were removing it," Saltzman said. "For nearly 10 million years, the climate was at a stalemate. Then the eruptions abruptly stopped, and atmospheric carbon levels fell well below what they were in the time before volcanism. That kicked off the ice age."

To figure out this geologic history, Saltzman and his colleagues used computer models to draw together measurements of isotopes of chemical elements from rocks in Nevada, Virginia and Pennsylvania with measurements of volcanic ash beds in the same locations. They also factored in temperature models developed by other scientists.

The ash deposits demonstrated when the volcanoes stopped erupting, and the isotope measurements pinpointed the Appalachians as the source of the volcanic rock.

The new findings mesh well with what scientists know about these ancient proto-Atlantic volcanoes, which are thought to have produced the largest eruptions in Earth's history. They issued enough lava to form the Appalachians, enough ash to cover the far ends of the earth, and enough carbon to heat the globe. Atmospheric carbon levels grew to levels 20 times higher than they are today.

This study shows that when those volcanoes stopped erupting, carbon levels dropped, and the climate swung dramatically back to cold. The timing coincides with today's best estimates of temperature fluctuations in the Ordovician.

The research, partly supported by the National Science Foundation, is detailed in an online edition of the journal Geology and will also appear in a future print edition.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/091027-volcano-ice-age.html



Submarine volcanoes are common features on the ocean floor. Some are active and, in shallow water, disclose their presence by blasting steam and rocky debris high above the surface of the sea. Many others lie at such great depths that the tremendous weight of the water above them prevents the explosive release of steam and gases, although they can be detected by hydrophones and discoloration of water because of volcanic gases. Pumice rafts may also appear. Even large submarine eruptions may not disturb the ocean surface.



The principal components of volcanic gases are water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2), sulfur either as sulfur dioxide (SO2) (high-temperature volcanic gases) or hydrogen sulfide (H2S) (low-temperature volcanic gases), nitrogen, argon, helium, neon, methane, carbon monoxide and hydrogen. Other compounds detected in volcanic gases are oxygen (meteoric), hydrogen chloride, hydrogen fluoride, hydrogen bromide, nitrogen oxide (NOx), sulfur hexafluoride, carbonyl sulfide, and organic compounds. Exotic trace compounds include methyl mercury, halocarbons (including CFCs), and halogen oxide radicals.

The abundance of gases varies considerably from volcano to volcano. However, water vapor is consistently the most common volcanic gas, normally comprising more than 60% of total emissions. Carbon dioxide typically accounts for 10 to 40% of emissions.[1]

Volcanoes located at convergent plate boundaries emit more water vapor and chlorine than volcanoes at hot spots or divergent plate boundaries. This is caused by the addition of seawater into magmas formed at subduction zones. Convergent plate boundary volcanoes also have higher H2O/H2, H2O/CO2, CO2/He and N2/He ratios than hot spot or divergent plate boundary volcanoes.[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_gas




It is really sad for you to post the word "stupid" along with quotes about volcanoes when you have no idea what the actual effect of the volcanoes are on the chemistry of the ocean.

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