If we consider that the spoon is being projected by the program (or more accurately, by the computer that is running the program), then all it would take to make the spoon disappear is to alter the program. Thus, if one operator alters his program, the spoon disappears for him – but not for anyone else who is running a program that is projecting the spoon.

I’m not sure I agree that it takes “lots of power” to alter the program though (i.e. “break the rules or ignore the spoon”). To my mind, it only takes understanding of how the program works. We are, after all, the programmers.

JMHO

well hello everyone i am new to this post and would like to state a few things. well as far as the memories go i dont think that most of this makes sense beacuse to say that energy can become mass is absurd once somthing becomes energy it stays that way and cannot be converted back. and to say that energy = information is crazy as well.

if so then by that standerd then you would be able to will things into exesitence merely with thought. not possible even on a sub atomic level.

as far as people having mass amounts of information this is very true. knowen as dna it is the programing that we all live by. however i do belive that we as people contain information of our fore fathers through this information. much like how animals know what this can kill and eat and what to stay away from.

however i do think that during intense mental focus we can say bend a spoon.

i belive that we as people had this ablity how ever we lost it beacuse of advances in sience and religous groups. we have very under developed brains compared to our ansesters. the thing that puzzles me is this:

when a fire breaks out it takes days if not weeks for us to control it, so how is it that for the first thousands of years mankind was not destroyed by fire the entire human race could not contain a fire that say a volcano made. unless there were true rain men. every culture has a story that states someone could contol some form of element. so why cant we now?

Hello Biohazard and welcome to the club. I like your user name.

As far as can energy be converted to mass, I think it has been proven that it can. I eat a lot of candy and potatoes, it converts to energy and that feeds my cells and they get massive, and I gain ten pounds of mass.

Also, there was the particle accelerator experiment that converted energy into mass.

Q: It is possible to convert mass into energy, but can we do the reverse? (Hardeepsingh, Derabassi, Punjab, India)

A: Yes, we routinely make mass from kinetic (moving) energy generated when particles collide at the near-light speeds attained in particle accelerators. Some of the energy changes into mass in the form of subatomic particles, such as electrons and positrons, muons and anti-muons or protons and anti-protons. The particles always occur in matter and anti-matter pairs, which can present a problem because matter and anti-matter mutually destruct, and convert back to energy.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/aprilholladay/2006-10-30-mass-energy-eyes_x.htm

I beg your pardon, but for a mere program, YOU display quite a high level of the autonomousity, that is, your quite an independant thinker (i.e. autonomous). However, the idea of "our being programmed by some Univrsal Mind" requires quite a thorough Debugging!
Is it possible to be simultaneously programmed and, yet, maintain one's autonomousity? ? ? (I guess it is -- a programmed FREE WILL -- a peice of cake for the Universal Mind, really!) LOL

Don't you think the almighty Universal Mind wouldn't have provided certain safeguards, preventing the "individual" from destroying the object (the information of which has been unlocked)??

( I suspect you might've gotten infected by your side-kick, Mirror-Mirror, who always mentions the Holographic Reality!)

If everything is just a program, then it must be quite a package of software -- self-propagating and self-progressing...
*---> In other words, the Universal Mind has created quite a problem for itself: Managing all of those peski critters (i.e. humans), in addition to taking care of the rest of the Universe!!!

*** Seriously, don't you think it sounds just a bit outlandish? ? ?

**************************** * * * ******************************
P.S. Bending spoons with the mind-power is the KINDER-GARDEN task for a professional hypnotist... *** I have personally observed how that's been done(!) -- Not just in a movie!!!*****************************************
? ? ? Do you really think the hypnotist has altered the projection? ? ?

I beg your pardon, but from your response, I gather you have never studied Psychology -- at least the introductory course...

Subconsciousness is the powerhouse of the human psyche!!! That's the center of our mental universe! It represents the foundation of our Consciousness!!! It is the source of all of our desires that mysteriously (for a ley person -- like most of us, myself included) trickle up (or down) into our Conscious mind...

**** That's where most of our "programs" are designed! ***

Then, I guess, J. Robert Oppenheimer has accidentally discovered the fact of the Einstein's formula exactly fits the nature of the enriched uranium? ? ? ? ? ?

Well, I wouldn't exactly call it an "accident". But, yep, that's not too far off from the truth.

Einstein's formula doesn't say anything about how to make an atomic bomb. All it describes is the amount of energy the thing will give off if any matter is successfully converted to pure energy.

What Oppenheimer and company had to do was figure out how that could be pulled off. And they did figure out how to pull it off.

Einstein's equation doesn't say anything at all about uranium in any form. It's just equates mass and energy in general.

In fact, the process doesn't even require enriched uranium. The process goes on in stars all the time using all sorts of different elements. The enriched uranium was just the easiest way for humans to preform the trick. But it's not a requirement for the process in general.

If you think the E=mc² only applies to enriched uranium you're sadly mistaken. Particle physicists use this relationship all the time in their calculations. It doesn't necessarily relate to a large amount of energy when the mass involved is extremely small. In fact, they are only able to produce particles in particle accelerators precisely because this forumula does apply to all matter.

Been reading Asmov? Truth like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.Sounds to me you have found GOD.But how does carma fit into the scope,And light is only a small part of the energy of a star,is this all there is?We've ask these kind of Questions since we lived in caves. I have enjoyed thinking about it,thanks HUEY

Apparantly, Eistein's discovery coincided with the WWII also by pure accident? He's been busy with the purely Theoretical physics -- for his own curiosity... (nothing to do with the war what's so ever!)
(In fact, its true -- he was offended by the fact of his discovery being used for the purpose of the mass destruction... )

Nevertheless, he didn't conceal his formula until the peaceful time, but made it public as soon as the discovery's been made!

*** Though you may be right regarding the formula's applying to all matter, but the discovery's application determines it's nature -- just as BEING DETERMINES CONSCIOUSNESS!!!

I would like to know where you get your definitions. The term "subconscious" I understand. It is the term subconsiousness that I am fuzzy about. Even the term subconscious is fuzzy to some people.

Wikipedia says:

"The term subconscious is used in many different contexts and has no single or precise definition. This greatly limits its significance as a meaning-bearing concept, and in consequence the word tends to be avoided in academic and scientific settings."

Other:
"a state of mind not immediately available to consciousness "

Here is another:
The state of being subconscious.

That one above seems silly. How can a person BE subconscious? Is it like being unconscious?



I don't need to. Psychology barely scratches the surface of of the human psyche. Its a waste of time.

I didn't say that I was a program. I don't identify "self" with the body. But in a simulated 3-D game, the player or user always has an icon or character that represents him. A program has to be written for that character in order for you to use it. The body is the program. The self is the user.

i do. most of us only use 11% or less of our brain power. but when mixed with our subconscious. we gain a lot of procesing power, which can allow us to change things in the physical world. as we know we can create a person. with our minds alone however we cannot manifiest it in the real world. beacuse we dont have enough energy and processing power to do so. we can create a whole world if we have the processing power to do so. i do belive that the first of men had this ability.

willing this into exisitence sounds crazy but its also based on everyones religon. i think that a hypnotist with the right guide of spiritual or mental exercises could get a person to combined conscious and subconscious. which might make it work.

sleeping is the best example of this people have been knowen to dream of things to come however people have been program to think that it is not possible so people disreguard most of the psychic things we encounter.

Says who? Based on what?

I'm tired off this myth being propagated. For the curious, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10%25_of_brain_myth

This doesn't really change your point, so you can make your point without making this claim.

JB, IMO that is one of the greatest quotes I've seen anyone post to these forums:



I completely agree wrt subconscious, and while I make frequent use of the term I generally don't use it in pretended logical progressions, as if it was tightly coupled to a specific meaning.

What I really like about this quote is how if draws attention to the the relationship between precision, consistency, and meaningfulness in terminology. This is why I think most adaptations of 'physics terminology' are often dishonest - including the use of the phrase 'holographic universe'.

the link didnt work my friend. also if u are going to qute somthing you should probly find a place that can not be changed or edited by anyone if u want i can make wikipida say that i am a god. hmm but i understand what you are saying.

maybe not beacuse lets face it i cant study the brain in depth, dont't have the right equipment.

so please not only massgetrade but everyone else please try to find articles that can be authentacted by somone who we can verify the information wikipida can be edited by anyone so it can say anything.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10309840-71.html

with enough goverment power they can control any information that gets to you.

never trust what you are told. only belive what you know.

Unfortunately there is not a better word to use when describing the idea of a holographic model of reality. Everyone thinks of Star Trec and the hologram. This term is a relatively new one associated with the 3-D holographic image.

"Universe" too is a vague term that can be used to describe many different "worlds."

To me, "universe" can mean "an environment for the incubation and propagation of life forms." The word "matrix" can also mean the same thing as "an environment for the incubation and propagation of life forms." Before a child is born it finds itself in a universe or womb which is also "an environment for the incubation and propagation of life forms."

So a Universe can be: a womb, a matrix, a petri dish, etc.

"Holographic" to me primarily represents something that is projected and appears to be three dimensional. That can be a simple image or an entire universe. Everything we see in this reality is a reflection of light. Things appear and seem to be three dimensional.

If you want to get into the discussion of how time and space do not exist I can suggest that the three dimensions that we see and experience are not the truth of this reality. It is simply the way we perceive it. Perhaps reality is completely flat, like the film that projects a holographic image.

JB, I'm simply pleased to see that you might be considering that use of the phrase 'holographic universe' might suffer the same drawbacks as the word 'subconscious'. That alone makes me happy, and is a nice departure from my experience with others who insist that there is only one true meaning for the phrase, and that everyone knows it, and that its same whether used by physicists or new agers or others.

There is one bone I'd like to pick:

Not everyone - I sure don't. Based on watching the show, I would say that the star trek holograms have nothing to do with holography. Can't they sit on the furniture on the star trek holodeck? Don't the holodeck manifestations create sounds on their own? The holodeck almost never comes to my mind when I hear 'hologram' or 'holographic'.

When someone says 'hologram' I first think of the actual existing technology. When I hear 'holographic universe' I first think of various completely bizarre and anti-reality based views that include infinite information density... and then I think of various ideas which you and Abra have suggested, which are not as far 'out there'.

Biohazard,

I absolutely agree that we should treat all sources with a healthy dose of skepticism, and not believe something is true just because it is claimed. By the way - all of use regulars here already know how wikipedia works - but I applaud your desire to be on the safe side and make sure everyone is up to speed. Despite (and because) of this aspect of its design, wikipedia is an excellent resource, and though it is flawed, it gets a lot of undeserved criticism IMO. I'm glad you directed your criticism more broadly than wikipedia itself.

I'm baffled that your statements include the phrase "If you are going to quote something..." - you seem to have jumped to the conclusion that I was providing evidence to back up my claims. As stated, that was 'for the curious' who might be interested in some on the claims which contradict the 10% myth - as a starting point for their thought process. You can also just google "10 percent brain myth" for more information.

Oh, and the link seems to be mangled by m2 - %25 becomes %2525. If you google as above, it will be the fourth one down. Or just go to wikipedia.

The bone I would pick with the Star Trec Holodeck is the same one you mention. The people apparently enter the room with their physical bodies intact and they interact with holograms which they can touch and hear. Instead, the movie "Matrix" has a better idea. They plug themselves into the machine and the body they generate inside of the matrix is made up of the same stuff everything else is made up of. This makes more sense. Just as the computer games create a character to represent you, so should the holodeck world.

There was one holodeck character in a Star Trec episode that developed consciousness. He was in a program about Sherlock Holmes. He was the arch villain. He discovered he was in a world that was not real and wanted out. But a holodeck character cannot leave the holodeck simply because he does not have a physical body. His body does not have the density and integrity to live in the real world.

But this did not make any sense because when people from the real world went into the holodeck, they just went in with their dense physical bodies. If this were the case, they would not be able to interact with the "ghosts" and the objects in the holodeck. Those things would be like a holographic image. You could pass your hand right through them.

But just as you manifest a body in your dreams that can interact with your dream world, a holodeck would have to be constructed so that you just plugged into the machine and manifested your holographic body that could operate in that world.

This is the same way I understand the astral plane. An astral body in the physical world is like a ghost. A physical body cannot operate in an astral world. You have to leave the dense physical body behind and manifest a body (the astral body) to operate in the astral world. The astral world is like a dream world.

The true shape of your astral form is just a gob of stuff that can be shaped or formed by your mind according to your self image. If you use your mind, you can make that gob of astral stuff look like anything you want, including animals etc. I think this is what people who claim to "shape shift" are doing. It is an astral adventure and they shape shift their astral body into the animal they imagine. It is like consciously creating a lucid dream where in that dream you are an animal.