Sky:
Of course not! I do not mean to be taken literally (with both hands). But, hypothetically speaking, some of the facts are etched in stone, while most of the other facts are just hardened theories -- they've been there for so long that everybody accepts them as Facts. But essentially most (if not all) of the facts (especially those concerning the human psyche), might undergo some refinition, or outright redefinition -- as new discoveries become available...

agreed on or not, facts are only what we experience ourselves. so yes, if it happens to me it's a fact regardless of whether anybody agrees that it happened to me.

And as an example, we can take the "seeing pink elephants". It is a fact that something happened. Whatever one wishes to label the phenomenon, it is no less a fact that it was a phenomenon. Beyond that, one may believe one "explantion" or another, and label any such explanation as fact - or not. But the label is not "fact". The label is opinion, pure and simple. The phenomenon itself is the "fact".

Does that include experiences in the state of a dellirium? ? ?



... even when your hallucinating???

nope. what i see in my halucinations don't actually happen. i halucinated.

However, you may not be aware of reality while your halucinating!

Besides, you simply cannot afford experiencing everything yourself:

1. you simply cannot afford everything ($$$)

2. Like most of us, you've been brought up to rely upon other prople's words...

P.S. Hey, Sky, I don't hear clapping???

It is still your personal experience, hence it is real to you. If you agree later that it was a hallucination then you are accepting the opinion of an outside authority on the nature of your personal experience.

wimp.

no i cannot afford to experience everything so what i don't experience with my owns senses delivering data to my brain for contemplation is not fact for me. when i halucinate, what i experience is not what was delivered by my senses. it's my brain conjuring up images on it's own. though i've been brought up to rely on other people's words does not mean that i consider those words to be fact. they are not facts unless i experienced what they experienced. and of course, i never said that everything i experince is fact. i've seen things and really don't understand what it was i saw as happens when one observes a ufo. because i cannot identify the flying object does not make it fact that is piloted by extraterrestials.

nope. i don't accept another's opinion as fact. that's what spiritualists and the god fearing do.

Not true at all. And that is a huge generalized assumption.

you're right bean and i apologize. i should have said, my experience is that the spiritualists and god fearing folks i've encountered often tell me that they accept other's opinions as fact. eighty percent of americans agree that the god of the bible is fact. it follows that if agreement determines fact then the christian god must be fact. indeed more humans on the planet agree on this fact than any other group of humans agree on what and who god is. and all christians alive today have been told this by other's who express their opinion on what god is. so it must be fact huh?

No, agreement does not make a thing 'true.' It might cause some people to claim something is 'fact.' But things called 'facts' are not always true.

In my opinion what Christians say they believe and what they truly actually believe are two different things. I think they lie to themselves, and "hope" there is a God.

But I don't think that agreement determines 'fact' for everyone. What I have said is that what we call 'fact' is and must be an agreement. That does not mean it is true. Some things we have called 'fact' have been proven untrue.

Christians may believe in God but most of them call it "faith" not "fact." Those who are bold enough to call it "fact" know that they will be asked for proof. Their proof is The Bible of course.

For a group of Christians to believe in God, to them, God is called a 'fact.' That does not mean it is called a fact in other circles. "Fact" is simply a label for a thing that people are convinced is true.

yes. as i keep saying, there really is no such thing as a fact.

And just for that, jrborgie, you deserve another round of applause:
CLAP, CLAP, CLAP !!!