Bear, can you expand on your statement "the governments number 1
propaganda sites" a couple of posts above? Is 'rense' a propaganda site
(I haven't looked at it), or a US government site, or a site that the US
government has characterized as a propaganda site?

Today is the actual anniversary of the attack on the USS Liberty.

To the memory of those who who died and were wounded. May they rest in
peace, and may their memory be honored with the truth.

And may their suffering help awaken us all to the much greater suffering
that has been inflicted over a much longer period of time on the peoples
of the Middle East.



Oceans

The gov says rense numer 1 disinfo site

http://www.rense.com/Datapages/stdept.htm

just spend half a day on www.rense.com and you will know who is really
lying here.


also www.ussliberty.org


also a servivor of the USS Liberty will be on a 2 hour radio show on RBN
Radio

here; http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/

at 800 am MST and will be archieved, just give it a day or two. actually
it started right now.




www.rense.com disclaimer

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or Im sure, some of you will get your "info" about the USS Liberty on
Fox or CNN today.

bear...I have been listening to Mark Dankoff a lot lately...has had many
Liberty survivors on his show..RBN is a great network

and I have been a subsciber to Rense for 8 yrs..always my first stop for
news...Rense is dangerous to the government...because of the truth...

Hi, Bear,

How did the government make this assertion that Rense is a disinfomation
site?

Does the US gov publish a list of sites it considers to be
propagandistic?

Thanks for your take on rense, daVinci.


Oceans

Oceans, thanks for the compliment, as I have stated before, you show
quite well how closed minded you are, if any says anything that goes
against your view of reality, then they must be wrong. You cannot come
up with any evidence supporting you accusations against Israeli, thus
you resort to "you source is not good".

You have no idea what source I use for information for my opinions. And
I said in the past, when I put my opinions forth they are posed as such,
unlike your opinions which you try to pass off as fact and hope that the
unknowledgable will take it on faith.

Again, I have yet to see anyone on here present actual proof that the
Israelis knowning attacked the USS Liberty. Maybe the legal counsel that
has been used in the past is just as bad as the arguements on here and
have been unable to present anything of substance to initiate a
congressional hearing. Please someone provide some concrete evidence,
not speculation and inferences.

And to clarify, if there was solid concrete evidence then this would be
more than a conspiracy theory. If the accusations against Israel are
able to be substantiated more than opinions are needed. And if this was
so much a fact, then why are historians, intel experts and academics so
divided on the facts.

Oh wait, Oceans say all of them agree... So you need to keep dreaming
on, as they do not all agree or this would have been settled long ago.

to xtoo


I remember as a tyke in school that the government's history books said
that the Indains were savages and scalped us whites..........


enough said.

It is so interesting how these massive myths get embedded in our
culture, isn't. Another one is about Columbus 'discovering' America. We
now know that he was but one in a long string of adventurers who came
here, to say nothing of the extraordinary explorations of the 'native'
people before all of them.

Another set of myths, far more damaging than the Columbus one and more
akin to our current 'The Muslims are out to kill us' nonsense is the set
that was developed by European settlers in America to justify the
dispossession of native Americans.

I learned a few weeks ago that the British in Nova Scotia put a $3 a
head bounty on the Mi'kmaq natives -- for each man, woman, and child,
and that they paid off when they were brought some body part of the ones
killed -- scalp, ears, etc.

Myth has a horrendous power, and the difficult thing about it is that it
becomes embedded in our brains, our very language, as well as the rites
and symbols on which our society operates. Very hard to root out 'bad
myth'.

If anyone wants to see myth at work, look at the symbology on our dollar
bill! It is amazing stuff...



Oceans

Hi, everyone,

I think we've covered the USS Liberty story from a loty of angles, so
this will duplicate a lto of what we have referred to. But because it is
from the survivors of the Israeli attack it bears special attention.
They have formed an organization that is trying to get the US government
to stop covering up for Israel, and complete a formal inquiry.

It does contain information that I have not seen elsewhere.

RIP to those who were killed. Those who survive demand justice for
themselves and their comrades.

Here is their petition: The source is given at the end.

-----

'USS Liberty' veterans demand investigation

Jun. 3, 2007 12:00 AM

Conclusions submitted in October 2003 to the Office of the U.S.
Secretary of Defense by the USS Liberty Veterans Association, Inc., in
demanding a congressional investigation into the aborted rescue during
the attack of the USS Liberty and subsequent alleged cover-up.

The group also calls for a new Naval Court of Inquiry and that June 8 be
officially recognized as USS Liberty Remembrance Day.

1. That on June 8, 1967, after eight hours of aerial surveillance,
Israel launched a two-hour air and naval attack against USS Liberty, the
world's most sophisticated intelligence ship, inflicting 34 dead and 173
wounded American servicemen (a casualty rate of 70 percent, in a crew of
294);

2. That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during
which time unmarked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS
Liberty's bridge and fired 30mm cannons and rockets into our ship,
causing
821 holes, more than 100 of which were rocket-size; survivors estimate
30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a minimum of 12 attacking
Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency radio
channels;

3. That the torpedo boat attack involved not only the firing of
torpedoes, but the machine-gunning of Liberty's firefighters and
stretcher-bearers as they struggled to save their ship and crew; the
Israeli torpedo boats later returned to machine-gun at close range three
of the Liberty's life rafts that had been lowered into the water by
survivors to rescue the most seriously wounded;

4. That there is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a
deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew;
evidence of such intent is supported by statements from Secretary of
State Dean Rusk, Undersecretary of State George Ball, former CIA
Director Richard Helms, former NSA Directors Lt. Gen. William Odom, USA
(Ret.), Adm. Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.), and Marshal Carter; former NSA
deputy directors Oliver Kirby and Maj. Gen. John Morrison, USAF (Ret.);
and former Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967;

5. That in attacking USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder
against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States;

6. That fearing conflict with Israel, the White House deliberately
prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by
recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the ship was under
attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is supported by
statements of Capt. Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft
carrier USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth Fleet
carrier division commander, at the time of the attack; never before in
American naval history has a rescue mission been cancelled when an
American ship was under attack;

7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction
through the heroic efforts of the ship's captain, William L. McGonagle
(MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened
with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth;
and were abandoned by their own government;

8. That due to the influence of Israel's powerful supporters in the
United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this
attack from the American people;

9. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United
States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has
never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no
surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly
testify about the attack;

10. That there has been an official cover-up without precedent in
American naval history; the existence of such a cover-up is now
supported by statements of Rear Adm. Merlin Staring, USN (Ret.), former
Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Capt. Ward Boston, USN, (Ret.),
the chief counsel to the Navy's 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty attack;

11. That the truth about Israel's attack and subsequent White House
cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people
to the present day and is a national disgrace;

12. That a danger to our national security exists whenever our elected
officials are willing to subordinate American interests to those of any
foreign nation, and specifically are unwilling to challenge Israel's
interests when they conflict with American interests; this policy,
evidenced by the failure to defend USS Liberty and the subsequent
official cover-up of the Israeli attack, endangers the safety of
Americans and the security of the United States.



More information: www.ussliberty.org