Topic: Obama/Asia/ and Iran
no photo
Tue 11/17/09 12:55 PM
Edited by smiless on Tue 11/17/09 01:00 PM
I am glad that Obama went to Asia trying to strengthen the relations over there. There is nothing more important than having peace right now.

I don't think he will get China to agree on tougher sanctions on Iran. They too think that the Iranians should be entitled to electricity.

If anything I am certain America will find a reason to attack the country one day anyway just because they think they have the potential of creating nucleur missiles like they did with Iraq.

What it is worth, I hope that one day the relations between Iran and the US will eventually strengthen and lead to peace. War is not something we need right now in my opinion.

Now you can call me Pro-Iranian if you like, but if you have never met Iranians then how can you know the story from their side? If you only watch the CNN news channel than you will only see the American's view. Why don't you try talking to some Iranians to see how they feel about the subject?

I have and I can say that this ancient civilization is very interesting with its culture, food, and lifestyle. I wish that they will prosper and ensure stability in their region reaching out to other countries to create a peaceful environment for everyone.

Those who are violent and want to use violence to create war should be stopped before it will happen. This goes for Americans also! Don't always think your country is full of angels who made only good decisions. They messed up bad getting their noses into Iranian affairs in my opinion. I don't blame many of the people in that region if they don't want American politics interfering in what they believe is right.

Remember you are sharing this world and not running it. If your mentality is this way then it is no different then a Roman mentality when the Romans were conquering alot of countries expanding their empire.

I call it the Roman Empire Syndrome. Get rid of it and learn to understand cultures, opinions, reasons, and not only understand, but also get involved in it and create peace and not war for your own benefits.







Quietman_2009's photo
Tue 11/17/09 01:06 PM
Edited by Quietman_2009 on Tue 11/17/09 01:08 PM
all well and good

I personally dig Iranians and know several

but if we talk about the lovey dovey Iran

we also have to talk about Hezbollah and Hamas which are both Iranian puppets

shipload of rockets and missiles and weapons and hand grenades intercepted by the Israelis just this week with Iranian shipping seals

what about Mamoud Imanutjob and his "wipe Israel off the map" rhetoric?

what about the special shaped charge explosives used in Iraq by Al Queda that are manufactured in Iran and smuggled into Iraq by the hundreds?

no photo
Tue 11/17/09 01:10 PM
I think your made some very well stated points and I commend you for your courage and ability to articulate factual information. The media thinks Obama is intimidated- he is a master politician-Kindness is the most powerful and evidence bases method in any negotiations. Ednahappy

RoamingOrator's photo
Tue 11/17/09 01:13 PM
I agree, it is much better that the administration seek diplomatic solutions to our (America's) problems. Not all things can be solved at the tip of a sword.

Call me a hippy liberal leftist if you want, but I am tired of our warlike nature. I'm tired of spending our money to rebuild the infrastucture of foriegn nations instead of our own. I'm tired of forcing democracy on nations that do not want it, and welcome the idea of letting our troops come home to be with their families. Those boys deserve a rest.

I hope that the conservative right, who so much like to wrap themselves in the flag and bible take the time to pray for Obama's success, instead of his removal. For they don't seem to realize that if Obama succeeds, we all do. Love him or hate him, he's got the job or we are no good.

Remember, if Democracy is the natural state of human politics for which everyone strives, then these nations will come into it on their own. If they get it any other way, it is still totalitarianism. Our culture is not necessarily superior to others, even though we may think so. It's called ethnocentricism, and it is as evil as any injustice we percieve to be taking place abroad.

We need to back off, and once again become a sleeping giant. We can be angry the next time someone wakes us.

no photo
Tue 11/17/09 01:15 PM
No one is remotely implying that Iran is without merit a threat- The move Obama is making is building a global team in dealing with a foe- all that have a stake must show allegiance and unite in a team effort. Why should US be the one to sacrifice lives and resources.It is brilliant. I was the US that helped China to recover from Japan. A stain not soon forgotten by China.

Quietman_2009's photo
Tue 11/17/09 01:15 PM
as far as nuclear power goes the Iranians have as much right as anyone else

when it comes to actual nuclear weapons, the Iranians signed and joined the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. That is the justification behind all the sanctions. Not just cause America decided so

and I'm of two minds about it. I hear Achmadinejad (or whatever) spouting his "kill every Jewish pig" speeches and snd I say hell yeah dont let them get close to a nuke

but during the 1st Gulf War (Iran/Iraq) Iraq used nerve gas on the Iranian soldiers and the generals demanded nerve gas to retaliate. The Ayatollah told them no because weapon of mass destruction were not consistent with the Koran. And he has said the same about nukes. so maybe...

no photo
Tue 11/17/09 01:20 PM

all well and good

I personally dig Iranians and know several

but if we talk about the lovey dovey Iran

we also have to talk about Hezbollah and Hamas which are both Iranian puppets

shipload of rockets and missiles ans wepons and hand grenades intercepted by the Israelis just this week with Iranina shipping seals

what about Mamoud Imanutjob and his "wipe Israel off the map" rhetoric?


Have you researched the reasons why they are so allergic to the United States?

Not that I support their efforts for I am against violence of anykind, yet I can understand that they don't want western influence in their country.

If the United States would have never interfered with their governments, I could imagine that more money could have been invested into a greater nation that can fix the infrastructure, education, and foreign policy trust that we the people could have used grandly. I blame both the Republicans and the Democrats including the lobbyists representing greedy corporations for getting the American people who work very hard in their lives into such cold relations.

America should have never sold weapons to those countries in my opinion.

Russia also should have never sold weapons to those countries.

Israel is a problem in that region. I have nothing against Jewish people. Believe what they want, but I do have a problem that the superpowers at the time decided to go with Zionism without trying to fix the difference of opinion with the Middle East. I personally think the Jewish should have created their country in the United States in one of the states. Afterall the US is the number one supporter of this country of Israel.

If that would have happened then perhaps there would have been a bit more peace.

Of course the Jews almost had their country established in Africa. How that would have faired, I don't know.

Anyway, no I don't support terrorist regimes no matter what, for I think one can fight a difference of opinion without violence by simply not complying.

Today America is so deep into the Middle East that they are in a hole trying to figure out what the best solution is for that region.

Many believe it is time that the Americans simply pull out and let the countries be. I have a feeling this won't happen at all and so you will see deaths, fighting, terrorism continue, and disagreements for generations to come.

I am very aware that the Republicans think differently. They want to continue the fight over there. Ask yourself this. Can you afford it?

What happened afterall in Iraq? The Iraqi's are happy that Saddam Hussein is gone, yet they are not happy that a Western Influence is living and commanding their country on how to live. They want Americans out. Most of them!

And the oil. Yes I am aware that it is not about the oil. At least many believe so. Perhaps it is more about weapon contractors. In the end the oil goes where? To China! Yes alot of it will go to China.

So you guys have put yourself in such a debt, lost lives, and China simply comes in and says we will buy the oil as you have it without losing one person in the process.

That was smart!

Bad decisions happen, but will the Americans learn from it, or will they repeat their mistakes. You people should care about the future of your children and not have this Roman Empire Syndrome all the time.

Everywhere I go, I hear America is the greatest nation in the world! Well I understand every nationality is proud of their country, yet look at statistics and really see the truth. America can be alot better then this and I do wish your country will get back on its feet. Don't get me wrong, but I wish that the country will be more of a team player then a stubborn decider of doing whatever you like to any country at any time. With that mentality, you will watch more and more nations refuse to conduct business with you leading to a shattered economy.

It doesn't matter anyway because the International Banks, WTO, and the Central Banks are running this world anyway to their likings.


Atlantis75's photo
Tue 11/17/09 02:23 PM
Edited by Atlantis75 on Tue 11/17/09 02:35 PM
The biggest problem with the wars and interference is the incompatibility of "our" way with their way.

And there is more.

I'm sure of many thinks, that extremism, such as extremist religion and extremist state laws and human rights abuses plays a major role why would most Americans support the idea of "bringing democracy" to these countries.

The biggest problem is, that "our way" is not necessarily compatible and not just that, but "our way" might have became a lot worse, since our economy is the one crumbling, our human right laws are flawed and our jails are full of criminals. This is what they see from overthere and of course they don't want something similar, because they will just point the finger and say "Look, you tell us that it's horrific to execute people and yet you do the same. You say, our protests were broken up by violent force of the police and yet you do the same (G20 protest). You tell us, that we are extreme, and yet you fill up the jails with people. You tell us that our religion is violent, and yet yours aren't far, since you are the ones who bomb and imprision innocent people who got nothing to do with world affairs. "

So what I'm trying to say is...maybe "our way" of life is just as flawed (if not as much) and it is quite hypocratic to try to force such ideology and system to others who got something else.

Also about the cultural, ideological, traditional differences. The reason of the violence regarding Israel and the rest is, basically just that. Israel tries (tried) to maintain a system which is based on western ideas and western style living in the middle of a place, where everything else is sharply different. Jordan has a king, Syria is the same, Iran is an Islamic Republic. This is why the Jewish state fails..because it's too small of a boat in the sea of an entirely different culture, which developed differently but highly compatible to region itself and Israel sticks out as a sore thumb. And this is even a bigger issue, than whether or not Jewish religion differences versus Islam, since many Islamic countries still have quite large Jewish diaspora, even iran has over 60,000 Jews living there since Babylonian times. So it's not really the question of religion or belief (Both Islam and Jewish are Abrahamic religions anyway so we aren't talking about sharp differences like Christianity and Buddhism for example) .
The problem is, that after WWII, the Jews who left Europe and formed a state, they brought the European style ideology and used force to gain enough power and land and tried to exist. Unfortunately those Jews who started this, are really not compatible to the region, since they are more European than Middle-Eastern, save the original population who lived there already.

So anyway, that's just an example, of how different traditions and governmental-political-ideological systems can be completely incompatible and forcefully trying to change a state or a country will incite bloodshed and hate, no matter what.

The Middle-East is a hard nutshell to crack..and while we can keep sending thousands upon thousands of troops, it will make a little or no difference. The Afghanistan war or the Iraq war are like a milkdrop into a coffee. You try to change the coffee color to milky-coffee but 2-3 drops will just disappear in the whole cup without making any differences. That's why even if Iraq has a puppet president who support western ideas and even if the Afghan war would be won and a new Honest (not Karzai) president would be sitting there, It might not last long, due to the incredible force of thousands of years of traditions and cultural values and they might just sweep it out within years and everything goes back to what it was or something close to it.

-Well, don't take that the wrong way, I'm not trying to reference it anyway to skin color or ethnicity, i'm just trying to find a metaphorical example.

So how to change them?

Well, how about by an example of ourselves instead of wars?

If USA (or EU) want others to change, you aren't supposed to be using force, because then that becomes the example itself. What we gotta do is to show an example of non-aggression and work on our own problems and work out or own problems and try to leap forward from this staleness and violent behavior.
I can almost guarantee you, that good example without violent interference will definitely make others to follow much quicker than forcing them to swallow a pill, that we wouldn't even swallow either.

We are all like monkeys actually, more appropriately apes..:smile: and as you know apes like to imitate each other..and if one is able to do more than the other, the rest will follow.

tohyup's photo
Tue 11/17/09 03:46 PM

I am glad that Obama went to Asia trying to strengthen the relations over there. There is nothing more important than having peace right now.

I don't think he will get China to agree on tougher sanctions on Iran. They too think that the Iranians should be entitled to electricity.

If anything I am certain America will find a reason to attack the country one day anyway just because they think they have the potential of creating nucleur missiles like they did with Iraq.

What it is worth, I hope that one day the relations between Iran and the US will eventually strengthen and lead to peace. War is not something we need right now in my opinion.

Now you can call me Pro-Iranian if you like, but if you have never met Iranians then how can you know the story from their side? If you only watch the CNN news channel than you will only see the American's view. Why don't you try talking to some Iranians to see how they feel about the subject?

I have and I can say that this ancient civilization is very interesting with its culture, food, and lifestyle. I wish that they will prosper and ensure stability in their region reaching out to other countries to create a peaceful environment for everyone.

Those who are violent and want to use violence to create war should be stopped before it will happen. This goes for Americans also! Don't always think your country is full of angels who made only good decisions. They messed up bad getting their noses into Iranian affairs in my opinion. I don't blame many of the people in that region if they don't want American politics interfering in what they believe is right.

Remember you are sharing this world and not running it. If your mentality is this way then it is no different then a Roman mentality when the Romans were conquering alot of countries expanding their empire.

I call it the Roman Empire Syndrome. Get rid of it and learn to understand cultures, opinions, reasons, and not only understand, but also get involved in it and create peace and not war for your own benefits.

These are words of wisdom and words of peace from our friend plenty of smiles....drinker

no photo
Tue 11/17/09 06:43 PM

The biggest problem with the wars and interference is the incompatibility of "our" way with their way.

And there is more.

I'm sure of many thinks, that extremism, such as extremist religion and extremist state laws and human rights abuses plays a major role why would most Americans support the idea of "bringing democracy" to these countries.

The biggest problem is, that "our way" is not necessarily compatible and not just that, but "our way" might have became a lot worse, since our economy is the one crumbling, our human right laws are flawed and our jails are full of criminals. This is what they see from overthere and of course they don't want something similar, because they will just point the finger and say "Look, you tell us that it's horrific to execute people and yet you do the same. You say, our protests were broken up by violent force of the police and yet you do the same (G20 protest). You tell us, that we are extreme, and yet you fill up the jails with people. You tell us that our religion is violent, and yet yours aren't far, since you are the ones who bomb and imprision innocent people who got nothing to do with world affairs. "

So what I'm trying to say is...maybe "our way" of life is just as flawed (if not as much) and it is quite hypocratic to try to force such ideology and system to others who got something else.

Also about the cultural, ideological, traditional differences. The reason of the violence regarding Israel and the rest is, basically just that. Israel tries (tried) to maintain a system which is based on western ideas and western style living in the middle of a place, where everything else is sharply different. Jordan has a king, Syria is the same, Iran is an Islamic Republic. This is why the Jewish state fails..because it's too small of a boat in the sea of an entirely different culture, which developed differently but highly compatible to region itself and Israel sticks out as a sore thumb. And this is even a bigger issue, than whether or not Jewish religion differences versus Islam, since many Islamic countries still have quite large Jewish diaspora, even iran has over 60,000 Jews living there since Babylonian times. So it's not really the question of religion or belief (Both Islam and Jewish are Abrahamic religions anyway so we aren't talking about sharp differences like Christianity and Buddhism for example) .
The problem is, that after WWII, the Jews who left Europe and formed a state, they brought the European style ideology and used force to gain enough power and land and tried to exist. Unfortunately those Jews who started this, are really not compatible to the region, since they are more European than Middle-Eastern, save the original population who lived there already.

So anyway, that's just an example, of how different traditions and governmental-political-ideological systems can be completely incompatible and forcefully trying to change a state or a country will incite bloodshed and hate, no matter what.

The Middle-East is a hard nutshell to crack..and while we can keep sending thousands upon thousands of troops, it will make a little or no difference. The Afghanistan war or the Iraq war are like a milkdrop into a coffee. You try to change the coffee color to milky-coffee but 2-3 drops will just disappear in the whole cup without making any differences. That's why even if Iraq has a puppet president who support western ideas and even if the Afghan war would be won and a new Honest (not Karzai) president would be sitting there, It might not last long, due to the incredible force of thousands of years of traditions and cultural values and they might just sweep it out within years and everything goes back to what it was or something close to it.

-Well, don't take that the wrong way, I'm not trying to reference it anyway to skin color or ethnicity, i'm just trying to find a metaphorical example.

So how to change them?

Well, how about by an example of ourselves instead of wars?

If USA (or EU) want others to change, you aren't supposed to be using force, because then that becomes the example itself. What we gotta do is to show an example of non-aggression and work on our own problems and work out or own problems and try to leap forward from this staleness and violent behavior.
I can almost guarantee you, that good example without violent interference will definitely make others to follow much quicker than forcing them to swallow a pill, that we wouldn't even swallow either.

We are all like monkeys actually, more appropriately apes..:smile: and as you know apes like to imitate each other..and if one is able to do more than the other, the rest will follow.


Thank you for getting even more in detail about the problem in hand. This is very true what you say. drinker

no photo
Tue 11/17/09 06:44 PM
Edited by smiless on Tue 11/17/09 06:52 PM


I am glad that Obama went to Asia trying to strengthen the relations over there. There is nothing more important than having peace right now.

I don't think he will get China to agree on tougher sanctions on Iran. They too think that the Iranians should be entitled to electricity.

If anything I am certain America will find a reason to attack the country one day anyway just because they think they have the potential of creating nucleur missiles like they did with Iraq.

What it is worth, I hope that one day the relations between Iran and the US will eventually strengthen and lead to peace. War is not something we need right now in my opinion.

Now you can call me Pro-Iranian if you like, but if you have never met Iranians then how can you know the story from their side? If you only watch the CNN news channel than you will only see the American's view. Why don't you try talking to some Iranians to see how they feel about the subject?

I have and I can say that this ancient civilization is very interesting with its culture, food, and lifestyle. I wish that they will prosper and ensure stability in their region reaching out to other countries to create a peaceful environment for everyone.

Those who are violent and want to use violence to create war should be stopped before it will happen. This goes for Americans also! Don't always think your country is full of angels who made only good decisions. They messed up bad getting their noses into Iranian affairs in my opinion. I don't blame many of the people in that region if they don't want American politics interfering in what they believe is right.

Remember you are sharing this world and not running it. If your mentality is this way then it is no different then a Roman mentality when the Romans were conquering alot of countries expanding their empire.

I call it the Roman Empire Syndrome. Get rid of it and learn to understand cultures, opinions, reasons, and not only understand, but also get involved in it and create peace and not war for your own benefits.

These are words of wisdom and words of peace from our friend plenty of smiles....drinker


Thanks for the compliment. I just am expressing how I see it and have interacted with both Americans and Iranians about these issues before. There are many sides of the story that had me come to this conclusion at hand, but as you know in politics decisions change and actions go with it. I just hope there will be peace one day. drinker

no photo
Tue 11/17/09 07:09 PM
Edited by smiless on Tue 11/17/09 07:14 PM
So as the Americans criticize their president as if he makes all the decisions when in actuality Congress makes them with a heavy influence of corporate lobbyists ask yourself if this is true or false.

Since 1945 by deed and by example the United States has overthrown 50 governments including Democracies and crushed some 30 liberation movements and bombed countless men, women, and children.

Do you believe America is a nation of "morale ideals" and that other countries should follow them?

Ask yourself with such a record do you expect other countries to simply agree with American policies and decisions immediately without first checking with their own government and its people?

If not then one has to think about what kind of leadership do you want in Congress? Who should you truly vote for to make better decisions to ensure peace not only in this country that is so divided on a great many of topics, but also for the world.


InvictusV's photo
Tue 11/17/09 07:28 PM
Edited by InvictusV on Tue 11/17/09 07:29 PM
I personally could care less if the world wants to follow us or not. We aren't a role model for you or anyone else. In another 15 or 20 years when the lovely Muslims have their fist in your mouth don't come begging us to help, because we won't be listening.

no photo
Tue 11/17/09 08:15 PM

I personally could care less if the world wants to follow us or not. We aren't a role model for you or anyone else. In another 15 or 20 years when the lovely Muslims have their fist in your mouth don't come begging us to help, because we won't be listening.


Then perhaps if you care less then you should tell your government to stop putting their affairs in everyones business. You guys have over 500 bases distributed world wide acting as if they are a world's police determining how each country should live. Countries are getting tired of it rather you want to see it or not. Perhaps ask the inhabitants about this to get a better understanding of how they feel about it.

Second the term "care less" is exactly the attitude many Americans have. It is too bad that such an attitude persists instead of trying to understand countries and respecting their wishes for their own beliefs.

Third - Your prejudice for Muslims is unwarranted. They pretty much keep their affairs in the Middle East and are not trying to be a world police. Muslims are everywhere in the world and most of them are good people that also only want to live a normal life. Such prejudice needs to stop on both sides and especially between the Christians, Muslims, and Jews, which are all of mediterrenean origin. Their hatred and prejudice needs to stop amongst each other. It is getting old for alot of people who wish only to live in peace.