Topic: The Idea of Writing
no photo
Mon 11/16/09 12:00 PM
Edited by smiless on Mon 11/16/09 12:08 PM
The idea has some claim to be the most powerful in the world - because, ever since its introduction, all other ideas that matter have been expressed in writing. Writing made communication infinitely elastic and started every subsequent revolution in thought. Its origins, however, were surprisingly humdrum.

Societies that possessed writing could have infinitely long memories. It helped the accumulation and tradition of knowledge - without which human progress would have been stagnant or slow - and conferred new powers of communication and self-expression on its practitioners.

It was so important that most people's recorded mythos of its origin ascribe it to the gods. Most modern theories suggest that it originated with political or religious hierarchies, who needed secret codes to keep their hold on power and record their magic, their divinations, and their supposed communications with their gods. For me it was to create love letters in high school. lol

Less romantically, the evidence suggests that writing was a mundane invention that originated among merchants between 5,000 and 7,000 years ago. In most civilizations, the earliest known examples are merchants' tags or tallies, which record types, quantities, and prices of goods; or fiscal records.

In China, where the earliest known examples were recently discovered, the marks were made on pots; in Mesopotamia, wedge like symbols were pressed into thin clay slabs' in the Inuds valley, they were inscribed on stamps that were use to mark bales of produce.

In short, writing started for the purpose of recording trivia - humdrum, information that was not worth committing to memory. At least I think that could be possible.

Great literature and important historical records were worthy of learning by heart and transmission by word of mouth. The Tuareg of the Sahara, who have their own script, still prefer to leave their best poems unwritten.

Most peoples, however, have succumbed to the temptation to use writing for every thought, feeling, or fact that needs to be conserved or communicated. The result of the introduction of writing across society was the first information explosion. The writing revolution is still going on: even in the computer age we have found no better code.

I am sure you know what this means R U COMIN OUT L8R 2NITE?

Now to a question to get this thread going.

What would the world be (at this moment of age) for humans without the invention of writing or even drawing? Would we have had developed still or the chances of this is minimal at best?

Abracadabra's photo
Mon 11/16/09 12:25 PM
I recently took a course on the history of mathematics. In that course the lecturer suggested that it may well have been our need to keep track of quantities that actually started the act of symbolic encryption of information (i.e. writing). Although I think that cave art potentially procedeed that. So it's certainly speculative at best.

What would the world be (at this moment of age) for humans without the invention of writing or even drawing? Would we have had developed still or the chances of this is minimal at best?


Well we certainly would have developed at least as well as some animals. Some scientists have argued that some species of birds have highly organized relationships, especially in pairs of monogamous birds. They may not be highly organized beyond the pair, but often times a particular pair of birds shows a very high degree of ability to communicate with each other and know what each other is up to as far as responsiblities for taking care of the nest and offspring is concerned. No writing used in that process.

Our closest relatives, the Chimpanzee's often don't seem to be as highly alert as the birds in some instances. I wonder if that says anything about us?

We certainly wouldn't have technology without an ability to write and record plans and instructions etc. I can't imagine getting very far technologically without an ability to communicate symbolically and keep records.

wux's photo
Mon 11/16/09 06:37 PM


What would the world be (at this moment of age) for humans without the invention of writing or even drawing? Would we have had developed still or the chances of this is minimal at best?




I think the state of the world would be exactly the same as now even if we did not invent writing.

I take a couple of examples from nature to illustrate my point.

Birds did not invent writing. Yet they form complex social ties in couplehood. They did not invent writing, yet their state of consciousness is the same as at present. Their mental/emotional development was not retarded by their not knowing writing -- they are just as much modern birds as if they had invented writing.

Humans have skyscrapers and airplanes and mp3 players, but they would have them if we had never invented writing. Just like the birds and the chipanzees as individuals and as societies or social relatives have progressed to their BEST culminating at the present, man would have progressed to his best as well. And since our best is how we are at present, and since we would have progressed to our best even without writing, I state that the present state of the human's world would be exactly the same as now even if humans never invented writing.

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The "mundanity" of writing: The recordings of bills of lade were made to ensure that the transporter (ship captain, caravan leaders) and his men did not steal. Merchandising in Levante had progressed to a very complex state (without writing -- as was my point earlier) and one part of the complexity was that traders did not move their own goods, but hired men to move them. At the receiving end the contractual trade partner could verify the shipped goods, and receipt them. The bill of lade was at first made with little clay statuettes, like cows, sheep, bales of wheat, etc.; and these were baked to harden; then these were placed in a clay shell and that baked, too. So the receiving trader had to break the outer shell to see what was sent, as per the invoice.

Good enough: it was tiresome and time consuming to make litte sheep and stuff out of clay, so the tradesmen developed a symbolic way of depicting the goods.

And the rest is history. (Written history.)

no photo
Tue 11/17/09 09:46 PM



What would the world be (at this moment of age) for humans without the invention of writing or even drawing? Would we have had developed still or the chances of this is minimal at best?




I think the state of the world would be exactly the same as now even if we did not invent writing.

I take a couple of examples from nature to illustrate my point.

Birds did not invent writing. Yet they form complex social ties in couplehood. They did not invent writing, yet their state of consciousness is the same as at present. Their mental/emotional development was not retarded by their not knowing writing -- they are just as much modern birds as if they had invented writing.

Humans have skyscrapers and airplanes and mp3 players, but they would have them if we had never invented writing. Just like the birds and the chipanzees as individuals and as societies or social relatives have progressed to their BEST culminating at the present, man would have progressed to his best as well. And since our best is how we are at present, and since we would have progressed to our best even without writing, I state that the present state of the human's world would be exactly the same as now even if humans never invented writing.

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The "mundanity" of writing: The recordings of bills of lade were made to ensure that the transporter (ship captain, caravan leaders) and his men did not steal. Merchandising in Levante had progressed to a very complex state (without writing -- as was my point earlier) and one part of the complexity was that traders did not move their own goods, but hired men to move them. At the receiving end the contractual trade partner could verify the shipped goods, and receipt them. The bill of lade was at first made with little clay statuettes, like cows, sheep, bales of wheat, etc.; and these were baked to harden; then these were placed in a clay shell and that baked, too. So the receiving trader had to break the outer shell to see what was sent, as per the invoice.

Good enough: it was tiresome and time consuming to make litte sheep and stuff out of clay, so the tradesmen developed a symbolic way of depicting the goods.

And the rest is history. (Written history.)


A very good observation and perhaps you are right about this. drinker