Look..

Here's the problem..

They want to offer a "public option"

They want to pass a federal mandate on individuals to carry an "insurance policy".

They plan on enforcing this mandate through the power of the IRS.

There will be a tax penalty for failure to meet the obligation to carry this mandated policy.

They also want to force insurance carriers to accept what are called "pre-existing conditions".

That means you're already sick. You have a condition that'll be expensive to treat.

They are also going to make it so that those with such pre-existing condition won't have to pay for adverse risk coverage.. and they'll call it "being fair"

Ok.. So I'm young and relatively healthy. Not Sick. I'm going to simply pay this tax penalty each year and pay out of pocket for whatever doctor's appointments I need, whatever medications I need, whatever treatment I need as it comes along rather than pay the $800 or $1200 per month in premiums.

Get it?

I'm going to wait untill I'm 30, or 40 or 50 or 60 or whenever it is that I get sufficently ill that I can no longer cover myself out of pocket.

The good news for me is that they have this nifty little clause in the law that states that I can't be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions..

Wow..that's cool.. Now that I've developed lymphoma or kidney disease or diabetes and my treatment is going to cost $15,000 a month, I can just go and pay my $800 or $1200 a month and get my treatment..

This will only lead to a situation wherein only sick people carry insurance and whoever carries the policy is going to go broke.

It's like being able to wait till you crash your car to buy collision insurance. Why pay all those months you're not using it when you can just wait till you do need it?

So when the insurance carriers (public or private) are only collecting premiums on cars that are already crashed and having to pay to fix all those crashed cars, it doesn't even take a monkey to figure out that the cash flow will be strictly NEGATIVE!

Understand? It won't work...

Yeah,these insurance cartels got sick Americans in a death spiral

if you read the hippocratic oath it makes you wonder why theres a problem,because if the translation is correct it doesnt matter whether you have the money to pay for it or not ..so why is there a need for insurance...

For the purpose of being one of those americans that got very ill without insurance? I would pay the devil himself to have my health.....wouldn't u? Until the day u look at death in the face? Think seriously what it would be like to have every doctor, hospital and pharmacy turn their back on u for "no coverage". I would rather pay the $800-1200 a month than to lose my life. I'm probably one of the only american's that think that way.....so I'm guessing I'm an individual

You bring up a very good point! They need to make the penalty higher.

In Arizona, if you drive without auto insurance:

1st Offense - $250 fine with surcharge = $442.50 The Judge can also suspend your license and registration for Three Months, although this is seldom done on a first offense.

2nd Offense - $500 with surcharges = $885.00 Drivers license and registration suspension for Six Months is sometimes given on second offenses.

3rd Offense - $ 750 with surcharges = $ 1,327.50 A one-year license and registration suspension is required.


The penalties are set high enough so that you realize that it's cheaper to just carry insurance.

so what are you going to do? suspend my license to buy vitamins and medicine at the drug store?

People are talking about yearly premiums ranging as high as $20K.. I can guarnatee you that as sick as I've ever been, I've never consumed $20,000 in medical costs.. nowhere near half of that in the space of a year..

Seriously.. why pay it? when I can just go to the doctors office and pay out of pocket for her to diagnose me with whatever it is I have, scratch me out a script for some meds, go to the pharmacy and get generics, and go home and watch sportscenter..

Government has never been able to increase solvency for any issue of this caliber. If you think insurance companies are screwing you over.. wait untill you don't have the choice of choosing something else. when you HAVE to go to the government for healthcare. that's the end of the road when you find yourself with no other option than to go to Uncle Sam.. I mean Uncle Barak..

when the government controls your access to healthcare, they control your life. period.

At least with the insurance companies (and believe me, I'm no fan) you have the choice of taking your business elsewhere. not so with single payer..

Shall you make it a violation of law to see a doctor and pay him with money from one's own pocket?

Will you make it illegal for a doctor or a church to have a free healthcare clinic and treat the poor and homeless? I've gotten such treatment, at **gasp** a church in my neighborhood where doctors from the University medical school run a free clinic for the indigent and they even pay for their scripts at the Wal-Mart. I didn't have to pay a dime. I avoided a sure case of bronchitis because of it. One that if I had come down with it would have landed me in your precious emergency room, the cost of which would have either gone to the taxpayer or followed me around for the next several years (I'd prefer that latter by the way)

Should that become illegal under this magnanimous system?

someone mentioned the hypocratic oath.. If I remember right, the first statement is: Do no harm..

The designs the Democrats have on the healthcare system will violate that principal, primary statement.

53 new committees
1 trillion dollars

and we wonder why the Dollar is weak and China has slowed it purchase of U.S. Bonds

Uncontrolled spending...Federal mandates...

Here comes a filibuster
....

Just curious, but if you got help at a church, where do you think that money came from. Indirectly but you still got it from the taxpayers that go to church.

The people that belong to a church are called a "congregation" and the Doctors and med students that are there all volunteer their time.

No Tax dollars involved. All resources provided by the church and it's parishoners.. good friendly people.. they even have a free hot meal service that coincides with the clinic, all paid for by the congregation of the church..

As an aside,

Do you just see American citizens for the tax dollars they give to the government? like the humans in The Matrix.. just resources for the benefit of running the state?

Are you not a free man or woman? Are you not entitled to allocate your resources as you see fit? Or would you rather just surrender your resources to the state so that it may allocate them as it sees fit?

It appears that you are completely incapable of actually discusing the issue.. particularly without substituting smiley faces for punctuation marks..

Tell me how anyone can remain in business insuring cars when the only time anyone comes to buy a policy is when they have a crashed car they need fixed. Particularly when, after the car is fixed, they stop making payments on their policy even though the next time they crash their car you are obligated by law to sell them coverage..

Does this sound like "sub-prime" health insurance to anyone else but me?

Or is that the idea? To drive public sector insurers out of business leaving only the Federal Government, with its ability to print money out of thin air, to pay for the entire nations health costs...

Funny, Tricare has been operating in one form or another for a lot of years now, providing a government-run health insurance programs to military retirees and the civilian dependents of soldiers on active duty. Yet, the sky has not fallen because of it.

-Kerry O.

No assumptions please. All I meant was that they too are tax payers as well as volunteers. And what other choice is there for the poor if some churches don't do this. Very few have access to such clinics though, so it doesn't mean much of a dent, despite that fact that it's a great thing. I have no clue what the Matrix thing it.

I make no assumptions.. my point you quite well elucidate.. if those amoungst you had youe way.. it would be made illegal for those without insurance to seek "off the grid" healthcare such as I was able to recieve..


the parishiners (sp???) of the church make their tythe according to their beliefs.. it has nothing to do with taxes paid to the state.. that's my entire point. if they didn't want their tythe money used o treat the poor and indigent. they wouldn't give it. but they do and they doc's come and donate their time.

your preferred system would, in effect, make such a charitible contribution to the community illegal...

is that what you want?

for every health care consultation to be sanctioned by the federal government? by some beauracrat out of DC to decide what you can and can't have in term of care of your health?

that's what you're asking for with the Democrat "healthcare reform".. you want DC to control your access to medical treatment.. and you do so in the name of charity and goodwill..

why is it then that one of the first acts out of the Obama administration was to limit the tax deductibility of charitible donations???

it couldnt be that The One wants to be in control of all the services rendered to those in need.. would it??

You left something out, if you do not have the proof of insurance, your insurance card with you, even if you are insured to the hilt you still get a ticket and a fine....it sucks.

I have never in my life seen a group of people more deserving of being driven out of business than the insurance cartels. I dont care about them. All of the first world countries take care of their sick and we should too.And it works fine.It is a hideous thing to me to allow these vulture insurance companies to profit from people being sick

So "Death to the Private Sector" then?

Government control is your solution?

I just want to be sure your position is clear..

No private sector solution. All control in the hands of Federal Bureaucrats, jack the income tax rates up to 60 or 70% and we all get to go to the DMV to see a doctor..

I want the Public Option to be in the health care reform.

yeah, we know.

I'm sure you were a fan of the Community Reinvestment Act and sub prime home loans to people that couldn't afford to buy a house as well..

Treating people for cancer, and children with muscular distrophy is a lot different than buying a house