I don't forgive, and I don't forget. I walk away and that person can keel over for all I care. I won't deal with their poison, in any way shape or form.

I've found that those who profess to forgive everything might feel better for it, but will always be walked over again, and again, no matter how they may claim it. They don't learn.

And a lot of the people spouting they deserve forgiveness because they have faced their sins and made ammends. Yea right they turned back time on all the misery. But they move "forward" by replaceing one addiction or another with the addiction of saying they are too weak to do what was normally expected of everyone else. Especially the everyone else's whose lives they trashed and they can not possible give back comes off as BS to me.

What really burns me is when they hit bottom and get all the applause for finally seeing it and their victims had to keep on with little or no help much less praise or applause for being responsible sure sounds like BS to me. When they stop the behavior and really make ammends like paying the back child support, replaceing the homes, vehicals, jobs, and educations they trash, paying for treatment of the victims, or at least the funeral costs maybe I will consider forgiveness. Until then I will give the people who deserve my grace my emotion.

Hmmmm......Forgiveness....or understanding?

Understanding the flawed damaged human who wronged you?


Accepting the flaws of the human, and moving past the hurt?

Letting go of 'wrongs'?



It's not psychobabble...it's survival.


To not move past hurts, is to close off one's self....

to put up walls, is to remove one's self from the flow of life, and the flow of love.

I've been wronged...harshly wronged...raped by a man who chose not to accept 'No'.

Did I forgive him?

Yes.

Why?

Because his accute irrational fear and sense of powerless and lack of control was what motivated him to his actions.

he took power and control......over me.

And I took it back.

by forgiving his flawed human ness.

Yes I did lay a complaint, I did take out an A V O (apprehended violence order)...and yes we had the whole horrendous trial.... which was worse than the initial rape.

I didnt want to see him do gaol time... I wanted him to learn.... to be blown open by his actions, into seeking help for his own damage.


Forgiveness is the only way to heal.

I will respect your opinion but I don't agree. Does forgivness undo the rape? Does forgiveness make him regret or even understand his behavior? Does forgivness make you feel safe? Does forgiveness make anyone else safe? Does forgiveness make you whole again? Does it make you let go of the anger? Does it make you forget?

No I don't believe in giving your life over to anger or vengence but I don't see putting down permission or absolution to people who make the choices they make and often don't come close to taking the responsibility of their actions.

Some one who genuinely makes a mistake, that does something without knowing the consequences, or having intent to harm, that person I can forgive to some degree but even then in most things you don't get a do-over or a chance to fix it.

I will respect your opinion but I don't agree.

Does forgivness undo the rape? No...but staying 'stuck' in it, is perpetuating it.


Does forgiveness make him regret or even understand his behavior?

It is not up to me to force him to feel remorse...he was held accountable for his actions through our law courts.


Does forgivness make you feel safe?

Yes.... I don't live in fear....I STILL don't lock my doors, or have elaborate alarms ...that would perpetuate a victim mentality.

Does forgiveness make anyone else safe?

How is that up to me? My children feel safe....through my sense of empowerment.

Does forgiveness make you whole again?

Yes. Try it sometime.... it's incredibly empowering, and liberating....residing in victimhood, is to perpetuate the fear.

Does it make you let go of the anger?

Yes.... I only wanted to burn him in his bed for about a week.


Does it make you forget?

Yes..... it sits back in the foggy past...and isn't a festering pustulating wound.

Thanks for your input but I can do all that without giving someone I don't think deserves it forgiveness.

If it works for you great. I like you and value your views.

I just get tired of the people who insist it is the only way to get closure. I have been through a lot of "stuff" and if I dwelt on it I would have desolved to dust a long time ago so I feel I have closure even if I don't necessarily completely blow it off. To me you need to learn something from your experiences. Reasonable prudence?

I am not saying you are but many try to propose it is only being Christian to forgive. I figure I am not the real judge and jury for mortal behavior so I don't have to forgive anyone. God will give people their real serious consequences. I m just not giving anyone permission to tred on me and expect to be forgiven.

I also wonder if forgiveness is a porportional response to certain behavioriors.

To me forgivesness is a pretty sweeping concept. You can't say I forgive you except blah blah blah. Either you do or you really don't.

My son's step mother choked him around the throat so that he wore the bruises to school the next day. I had a terrible time not only excuseing her behavior but mine for allowing her to have access to him. While I could eventually forgive her to some degree I made it clear to her she better never lay a shadow on me or mine again or I would kill her. Later she tried to thank me for forgiving her and I told her I might have excused her I would never forgive her or myself and I think that is true. Maybe it is symantics I don't know. Thought provoking concept.

Knowing what we both know about rape I don't think I could forgive anyone who would rape my child. I know there would be no place someone who had done that could go and breath another breath around me if they did. Even if I had to sacrifice my freedom, or my life, and eternity to do it. I think that is just primal reaction.

*** usual something I read here always makes me think long and hard about something or another.

Does the fact that she gets half of my 401k help too??

A couple things, you mention God here, and I would like to make a point to that end. Does God not forgive us for our sins, our mistakes however big they may have been, if we come to Him in humbleness to ask for it? Of course He does, so that being said, if God can forgive for even the gravest of sins, why can we not do the same?

Also, put yourself in the other person's shoes for a second. Have you never done something you wish you hadn't, or done something you regret but can never take back? We all make mistakes, some perhaps make bigger ones then others, but we all do it. Wouldn't you want to be forgiven for such a mistake you made? How would you feel if you asked for forgiveness, and never got it?



First I'm sorry you had to go through that, I can only imagine how tough that would have been to deal with. However, two things come to mind here. First off, don't blame yourself, you had no idea she would do what she did. Hindsight is often 20/20, of course now you wish you hadn't had him with her, but you didn't know what would happen then. It wasn't your fault.

Secondly, it sounds as if you had a chance to bring some type of peace to this woman, and that she really felt remorse for her actions later on after the fact. I don't mean to make this sound bad when I say it, cause I don't mean it that way, but in what you said to her when she thanked you for forgiving her, you may have made things a little harder on her going forward by telling her you couldn't. I realize she's gonna have to live with the mistake she made for the rest of her life, just as we all have to live with things we have done. But at the same time, her burden could be a bit lighter if she knew she had made amends with the one she had wronged. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

Forgiving others is something I do for myself. Not for them.

Sure you forgive some one after you get even!?? is not it? Let say some guy went dear hunting and accidently shot dead you brother or you father do you forgive him?? or you lost you house to ex bf or gf and have all you saveings whipe clean? or you got in car crush and your kids die , just because some young punk rain red light do you forgive him?? You might say yeh sure , but the realty is you want them in prison , or worth, so NO people do no forgive they just get even...

I forgive fairly easy...

My heart is good that way...

Unless it was an unspeakable act

Then my grudge outweighs all forgiveness!

Uhm what? Forgiveness is only given from the person as in they did nothing wrong but if you mean from the person asking for forgiveness please 99x out of 100x this person never learns their lesson or what they did wrong, etc.

I try hard to understand people and their reasons and motivations for who they are and why they do the things they do. I forgive easily mainly because I expect the things that need forgiving.

To err is human, to forgive divine....

To let go of something and detach from it without anger is a divine & defining moment. It builds character.

A wise woman once told me this, "Always forgive, Never forget!"

Oh god

How true this is!!! Thank you

Bingo.

It took me about three yrs to forgive someone, the anger, resentment and bitterness was eating ME, not them.
It was very freeing.

Kudos to Jess642, I just didn't want to quote the whole thing, You "get it" too.