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| Topic: State secession movement grows :) (article) | |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Sun 10/11/09 08:54 AM
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They will not need to resort to secession... The federal government will colapse to some extent on its own. Leaving the states to fend for themselves for a time. Can't sustain the growth of the federal government without squeezing the life out of its citizens. At some point the size of the government will be to large for the base of its citizens to support it...  Current events seem to foretell the opposite-- that it's the states that are on the verge of collapse. What's even more curious is that fact that most Red States get more federal money than they pay into the Federal government, while the Blue States are footing the bill. Yet, most of rebel-rousing is happening in the Red States. Nose:Face:Spite-- Secession. -Kerry O. And I have heard their state taxes may be higher than other states. So they get more federal funds and their taxes are higher and they run under Conservative control. Something ain't right. Or is it?? |
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Secession will not happen in these here United States, you can bank on it. I wouldn't bank on anything at this time. There was a time when people believed the government would never start undeclared wars or take over private businesses or regulate interstate commerce or education or medicine. That all changed as each generation grew more and more dependent on the government and the State gave itself more power. Secession has already happened twice (once from Britain, once from the tyrannical Northern States), so there is no reason to say "it won't happen again". (especially considering the volatile situation the last 20 years of neocons and left liberals have put us in) If the dollar crashes, all the old rules are gone, and it seems the government is determined to do that with its wars and welfare (corporate and otherwise) and insane debts. Oh so true and we can never say never when it comes to this. I hope it grabs hold and spreads like wildfire. The common day American knows how to run this Country better than the polish*tans that have taken over our Country and running it amok. Thanks for such a great and encouraging post! Better to look like Jesus than any polish*tan we have in office   Thank you for the kind and encouraging words, and thank to any others out there who also agree with me. xoxoxo!   |
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This is what it is like in my neighborhood....  These flags are flown with absolute respect for the men and women who have (and still do) sacrifice thier blood sweat and tears to serve this country. It is meant to be an act of defiance and disrespect to the federal government.....not to any one individual who feels indignation at the concept of peaceful protest. You people who got such big mouths about getting rid of Texas can go f*** yourselves. I and the rest of my family served you and your families when I was in the military. Many of us here did. We didn't just serve Texas....We served America. If we chose to consider seccesion...that is our business. You wanna disrespect us for it....bl#w me. Woohoo! Go get 'em!!!  Any state has the right to secede and if that is what the people of that state chooses, the I am in support of that. |
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Isn't secession unpatriotic anyway?
I would call wanting to negate your home country kinda unpatriotic. So secessionist are technically Un-American, right? Anti- American folks can be considered terrorist by some, right? If you are against the country you live in, I believe the correct right wing response is always "Get out". When I did not like Bush, the rightwingers told me to get out of the country. So can we tell the right wingers who don't like Obama to leave? They did it to those of us who did not like Bush. I wouldn't do it because I am a better person than that. But it does make ya think, huh? |
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Isn't secession unpatriotic anyway? I would call wanting to negate your home country kinda unpatriotic. So secessionist are technically Un-American, right? Anti- American folks can be considered terrorist by some, right? If you are against the country you live in, I believe the correct right wing response is always "Get out". When I did not like Bush, the rightwingers told me to get out of the country. So can we tell the right wingers who don't like Obama to leave? They did it to those of us who did not like Bush. I wouldn't do it because I am a better person than that. But it does make ya think, huh? Or, if one dissented on the issue of the Iraq incursion, you were frequently called a traitor. Now, some of the same people who pointed the finger back then are stopping just short of calling for armed insurrection against a democratically elected government headed by a moderate president they despise. I still think it stuck in some peoples' mind that Sarah Palin's close association with secessionists in Alaska entered some peoples' mind as they were in the voting booth last fall. There's a tradition of dissent in this country and a means by which one can express it and not end up in jail. I just wonder why some Far Right conservatives don't have the patience it requires and how long it will be before they cross the line into outright sedition? -Kerry O. |
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Isn't secession unpatriotic anyway? I would call wanting to negate your home country kinda unpatriotic. So secessionist are technically Un-American, right? Anti- American folks can be considered terrorist by some, right? If you are against the country you live in, I believe the correct right wing response is always "Get out". When I did not like Bush, the rightwingers told me to get out of the country. So can we tell the right wingers who don't like Obama to leave? They did it to those of us who did not like Bush. I wouldn't do it because I am a better person than that. But it does make ya think, huh? Or, if one dissented on the issue of the Iraq incursion, you were frequently called a traitor. Now, some of the same people who pointed the finger back then are stopping just short of calling for armed insurrection against a democratically elected government headed by a moderate president they despise. I still think it stuck in some peoples' mind that Sarah Palin's close association with secessionists in Alaska entered some peoples' mind as they were in the voting booth last fall. There's a tradition of dissent in this country and a means by which one can express it and not end up in jail. I just wonder why some Far Right conservatives don't have the patience it requires and how long it will be before they cross the line into outright sedition? -Kerry O. Sedition has already been reached I believe by some groups. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition Sedition is the stirring up of rebellion against the government in power. ...... Sedition is encouraging one's fellow citizens to rebel against their state...... Sedition laws somewhat equate to terrorism and public order laws. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sedition Main Entry: se·di·tion Pronunciation: \si-ˈdi-shən\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English sedicioun, from Anglo-French sediciun, from Latin sedition-, seditio, literally, separation, from sed-, se- apart + ition-, itio act of going, from ire to go — more at secede, issue Date: 14th century : incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority I had to look it up...lol |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States
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Well, let’s see. If Texas were to secede it would need some strong alliances, Canada? Mexico? South America? What do they have to offer?
Agriculture: cattle, cotton, dairy products, nursery stock, poultry, sorghum, corn, wheat Industry: Chemical products, petroleum and natural gas, food processing, electric equipment, machinery, mining, tourism Oil, somewhere between 100 and 300 barrels a month. Actually while that was meant to be amusing, it might not be so amusing when we consider the amount of land exposure to the Gulf of Mexico. How strong are we allied with Mexico – would they be of any use defending an invasion? What about Cuba and its alliances can Cuba be bought and utilized as a staging platform for invasion? I’m not familiar with all the treaties and alliances that exist today between governments; are any of you? I wonder if those considering secession have some idea and if they’ve considered with whom they might be allied with? I’m thinking that if such a secession were to be allowed, it would come at a cost to Texas. They would probably be forced to concede all of the bay area to the U.S. making any shipping to the state of Texas (by land or water) quite a costly venture. Texas would be severely limited by such a trade-off, unless of course Texas offered their ‘shores’ for some kind of treaty or alliance with a very influential government who just might have a reason to secure the state under its banner. So what do you think? Civil war – world war – a multi-front war? Kind of a drama isn’t it? Maybe Texas could bring the southern coastal states on board –wow, that would be interesting…. |
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Edited by
heavenlyboy34
on
Sun 10/11/09 08:24 PM
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Well, let’s see. If Texas were to secede it would need some strong alliances, Canada? Mexico? South America? What do they have to offer? Agriculture: cattle, cotton, dairy products, nursery stock, poultry, sorghum, corn, wheat Industry: Chemical products, petroleum and natural gas, food processing, electric equipment, machinery, mining, tourism Oil, somewhere between 100 and 300 barrels a month. Actually while that was meant to be amusing, it might not be so amusing when we consider the amount of land exposure to the Gulf of Mexico. How strong are we allied with Mexico – would they be of any use defending an invasion? What about Cuba and its alliances can Cuba be bought and utilized as a staging platform for invasion? I’m not familiar with all the treaties and alliances that exist today between governments; are any of you? I wonder if those considering secession have some idea and if they’ve considered with whom they might be allied with? I’m thinking that if such a secession were to be allowed, it would come at a cost to Texas. They would probably be forced to concede all of the bay area to the U.S. making any shipping to the state of Texas (by land or water) quite a costly venture. Texas would be severely limited by such a trade-off, unless of course Texas offered their ‘shores’ for some kind of treaty or alliance with a very influential government who just might have a reason to secure the state under its banner. So what do you think? Civil war – world war – a multi-front war? Kind of a drama isn’t it? Maybe Texas could bring the southern coastal states on board –wow, that would be interesting…. Well, Texas never gave up easy during the "civil war"(more aptly called "the Northern War against Southern Independence"), I know that. Can't say for sure about modern Texas, though. |
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Well, let’s see. If Texas were to secede it would need some strong alliances, Canada? Mexico? South America? What do they have to offer? Agriculture: cattle, cotton, dairy products, nursery stock, poultry, sorghum, corn, wheat Industry: Chemical products, petroleum and natural gas, food processing, electric equipment, machinery, mining, tourism Oil, somewhere between 100 and 300 barrels a month. Actually while that was meant to be amusing, it might not be so amusing when we consider the amount of land exposure to the Gulf of Mexico. How strong are we allied with Mexico – would they be of any use defending an invasion? What about Cuba and its alliances can Cuba be bought and utilized as a staging platform for invasion? I’m not familiar with all the treaties and alliances that exist today between governments; are any of you? I wonder if those considering secession have some idea and if they’ve considered with whom they might be allied with? I’m thinking that if such a secession were to be allowed, it would come at a cost to Texas. They would probably be forced to concede all of the bay area to the U.S. making any shipping to the state of Texas (by land or water) quite a costly venture. Texas would be severely limited by such a trade-off, unless of course Texas offered their ‘shores’ for some kind of treaty or alliance with a very influential government who just might have a reason to secure the state under its banner. So what do you think? Civil war – world war – a multi-front war? Kind of a drama isn’t it? Maybe Texas could bring the southern coastal states on board –wow, that would be interesting…. Well, Texas never gave up easy during the "civil war"(more aptly called "the Northern War against Southern Independence"), I know that. Can't say for sure about modern Texas, though. LOL called that by whom? |
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Edited by
Quietman_2009
on
Sun 10/11/09 08:57 PM
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contrary to popular belief, Texas does not have the right to secession written to their Constitution Texas does have the right to split into 5 states if the legislsture and the people vote for it that would give Texas 10 Senators and dozens of Representatives making it a very powerful voting bloc in the US Congress. That is considered to be the last resort "nuclear option" these states declaring sovereignty are doing so under the guidelines of the Consitution reffirming their rights to exists as United States and not as subjects under a Federal Government. Every power granted to the Federal Government is with the states approval. Any power not mentioned in the Constitution is up to the states. But the Federal Government has been dictating a lot of terms to the states that are not in accordance with the Constitution for instance the federal marijuana laws.Many states have legalized marijuana but the feds continue to enforce the Federal laws. Marijuana is mentioned no where in the Constitution thus it should be a matter for the states to decide without Federal intrference just one example |
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Edited by
adj4u
on
Sun 10/11/09 09:18 PM
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contrary to popular belief, Texas does not have the right to secession written to their Constitution Texas does have the right to split into 5 states if the legislsture and the people vote for it that would give Texas 10 Senators and dozens of Representatives making it a very powerful voting bloc in the US Congress. That is considered to be the last resort "nuclear option" these states declaring sovereignty are doing so under the guidelines of the Consitution reffirming their rights to exists as United States and not as subjects under a Federal Government. Every power granted to the Federal Government is with the states approval. Any power not mentioned in the Constitution is up to the states. But the Federal Government has been dictating a lot of terms to the states that are not in accordance with the Constitution for instance the federal marijuana laws.Many states have legalized marijuana but the feds continue to enforce the Federal laws. Marijuana is mentioned no where in the Constitution thus it should be a matter for the states to decide without Federal intrference just one example on point ------ Article I - The Legislative Branch Note Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress. No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay. ------ Article IV - The States Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof. Section 2 - State citizens, Extradition The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime. (No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.) (This clause in parentheses is superseded by the 13th Amendment.) Section 3 - New States New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress. The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State. Section 4 - Republican government The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence. ------- Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ------ |
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Secession will not happen in these here United States, you can bank on it. I wouldn't bank on anything at this time. There was a time when people believed the government would never start undeclared wars or take over private businesses or regulate interstate commerce or education or medicine. That all changed as each generation grew more and more dependent on the government and the State gave itself more power. Secession has already happened twice (once from Britain, once from the tyrannical Northern States), so there is no reason to say "it won't happen again". (especially considering the volatile situation the last 20 years of neocons and left liberals have put us in) If the dollar crashes, all the old rules are gone, and it seems the government is determined to do that with its wars and welfare (corporate and otherwise) and insane debts. Read my lips..... It Will Not Happen!!! Nuff said.... Never think outside the box--it's to real for some--- |
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Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. that is pretty much where the sovereignty movement is coming from |
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Edited by
Atlantis75
on
Sun 10/11/09 09:49 PM
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Secession can happen, it's not something impossible in this world.
In 1970, if I would have told someone, that the Soviet Union is gonna break up 20 years later, they would have called me a nutjob and someone who should be in a mental institution. If I would have told someone in 1991, that 10 years from now, the world trade center will be attacked, you would have called me insane. If in 2001, I would have told someone, that a black guy named "Barack Hussein Obama" will be the president of USA, you'd have called me an insane person. |
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Secession can happen, it's not something impossible in this world. In 1970, if I would have told someone, that the Soviet Union is gonna break up 20 years later, they would have called me a nutjob and someone who should be in a mental institution. If I would have told someone in 1991, that 10 years from now, the world trade center will be attacked, you would have called me insane. If in 2001, I would have told someone, that a black guy named "Barack Hussein Obama" will be the president of USA, you'd have called me an insane person. Like the supreme court stated in Texas vs White, they can secede by revolution and if all states agree to it. |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Sun 10/11/09 09:59 PM
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Besides that we could just take the state back and the movement would be null and void anyway. There is no way a state militia can stand against the US military. And the little state would not have American citizens in it anymore so no need to feel guilty about it. The citizens willingly gave up their citizenship to this country by saying they did not want to be a part of it anymore but wanted to take the land with them when they go.
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Besides that we could just take the state back and the movement would be null and void anyway. There is no way a state militia can stand against the US military. And the little state would not have American citizens in it anymore so no need to feel guilty about it. The citizens willingly gave up their citizenship to this country by saying they did not want to be a part of it anymore but wanted to take the land with them when they go. And why would military personel fire upon Former U.S. citizens for the sake of obtaining land and jurisdiction? IF everyone in the state wants to secede, and the state government wants to secede, why should they not be able to? If it makes them all happy... Or, do you take a more authoritarian point of view? |
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Besides that we could just take the state back and the movement would be null and void anyway. There is no way a state militia can stand against the US military. And the little state would not have American citizens in it anymore so no need to feel guilty about it. The citizens willingly gave up their citizenship to this country by saying they did not want to be a part of it anymore but wanted to take the land with them when they go. And why would military personel fire upon Former U.S. citizens for the sake of obtaining land and jurisdiction? IF everyone in the state wants to secede, and the state government wants to secede, why should they not be able to? If it makes them all happy... Or, do you take a more authoritarian point of view? is that not why the us goes all over the world shooting people because the ""people"" does not want the govt that is controlling them maybe the states should ask the feds to invade and kick themselves out just a thought |
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