AdventureBegins,

I have explained what Grace means many times. I have explained to you
that all Christians must obey the law. I have NEVER said that
Christians don't have to obey the law. You are either blind or a
complete moron and I'm actually thinking it's a little of both.

I'm done with you. You are swine and cannot learn, you only know how to
pervert and befoul any truth you happen upon.

AB, I have not the knowledge to do battle over this subject, but I will
be happy to give an opinion based on what I have been able to learn.

The prophacies of the coming of the messiah are mostly contained in
Jewish/Hebrew stories. As you menationed reading some of thier Holy
documentations, I'm sure you found them there.

It was the conclusion of MOST Jews at the time that Jesus was not the
Messiah told of in prophacy. There has been much debate over this issue
since the time of Jesus.

What I conclude from all this, is one thing. That prophacies are
apparently faulty, for even in anchient times, when they were so much
closer to the giving of that prophacy, it was not clear enough to be
interpreted, by all, in the same manner.

Prophacy is apparently very important information, or why would God give
it at all? Of course, then, why would God bury such important
information, in a code that could not be clearly received by all?

So, if you consider, at the time, that the vast majority of Jews, Never
did accept Jesus as the Messiah, then who was right about the prophacy?
Those that became and taught Christ doctrine, or those who remained
steadfast and faithful to the law, waiting still for their prophacies
fulfillment?

The ones that are waiting are waiting for him to take the throne. They
missed the wonder of his first comming while waiting for the fullfilmnet
of the second.

He fulfilled all prophesy that I found except 5 and those 5 will not
occure till the end times of Ishaia.

Unless you add the things that the deceivers have placed within the Holy
Word. Then he becomes not the messiah but the false prophet. This can
not be so I will not follow the deceit within the churches chosing
instead to follow the truth that is Jesus and the Promise of the Old
Testement and to leave the falseness that is the church built on cesars
gold to wither and die. As it will.

With all the parts matching and none of the things the Deceivers have
claimed being in the Prophesy I believe that he is the one foretold but
that deceivers have clouded his works with their own so that people
would worship them and not the truth of His Manifestation.

Wow spider You use swine as being bad, but yet you say it is good for
food for the Temple of Yahweh. What a contradiction.. Miles

AB, let me ask you a question. From your perspective of the truth as
you have found it. What reasons would, a huge network of generations
of, Hebrews have to determing that Jesus was not the messiah or the
Christ for that matter?

Just from you particular point of view. From the knowledge you have
found, seems to suggest that it is clear enough for a layman to
interpret. (I do have my own ideas, but I want to hear yours)

GOD BLINDED THEM TO JESUS, RED BECAUSE JESUS HAD TO DIE ON THE CROSS SO
THE GENTILE WOULD GET A CHANCE TO HEAR THE GOOD NEWS

1. The clergy/priests of the Torah could not accept his message.
Because to believe his message the synogogues would also need to forgo
the tiths and sacrafices they grow fat upon.

2. The rank and file do not wish to see this truth because they
expected his comming would bring them to the forefront of the world and
place them at the pentacle of world politics.

They saw only the second comming in their prophesy and did not consider
the time between the first and the second.

So Wonderman is correct in some respects. God could have used their own
greed, and their self centered attitude to blind them from the truth?

Your view, AB, is pretty basic to what I understand as well. One other
question. It's pretty clear that some Christians believe that all those
who 'refused' to accept the prophacy as being fulfilled, will doubtless
not find salvation.

However, if I understand your view correctly, Jesus life and death still
graces those who served God, even though they sinned?

Is that correct?

You are correct. His life and death bought for ALL mankind the chance
to find Grace but we must find it not by calling to him 'Lord, Lord' but
by following in his spiritual footsteps and becoming the best person we
can be.

God forgives. He allways has else we would have been wiped out a long
time ago.

OINK OINK

I you beleive we must also follow the law why then do you chastise
anyone who remindes us of the law?

The Pharisees also were known to Jesus to be Hyprocrites for they
expounded the Law but used it to make only the points they wish to make
thus slamming the door on those seeking heaven.

WRONG THE ONLY WAY TO FIND SALVATION IS TO HAVE A PERSONEL RELATIONSHIP
WITH JESUS

Wonderman I may have a different opinion but I have not told you you
were wrong. Please give me that same consideration. I don't care what
your personal beleif is. I read the same book and it tells me that my
forgivness comes from God.

There can be only one God.
Matthew 23:9

'...: For one is your Father which is in Heaven.'

WE BOTH HAVE OUR BELIEFS ONE OF US WILL BE RIGHT THE OTHER WILL BE WRONG
WE WILL FIND OUT AT THE ENDTIMES. AB

Actually you will find out on the day you cross over. Prepare to be
amazed for it is close to what you know and yet so much more. You may
see me there and when you do you will say 'brother' for what was in this
place will have passed away to you and you will see wonders.

This is when you will know for sure if you believed him in the good
times or will be part of the Ephriam prophecy where many nations have to
give thier lives for salvation. The rising of the saints happen here
because Yahweh is not a respestor of persons...

Rev 11:4-13

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before
the Elohim of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire
proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants
to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to
shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and
they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the
earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

7 The Witnesses Killed


When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the
bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which
spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Master was
impaled. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations
will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their
dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth
will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another,
because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

11 The Witnesses Resurrected


Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from YHWH entered
them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw
them. 12 And they heard a loud voice(it sounded like trumpets) from
heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a
cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great
earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven
thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to
the God of heaven.
NKJV
Watch out if you are not in the 1st ressurrection. Then those who were
stubborn and would not believe will now believe. They will put on the
shield of Salvation and die for thier beliefs. The Ephriam prophecy this
is why you do not find them in the 144,000 saints but they are spoken of
immediayely afterwards if you can hear it.. Miles

Miles in this day and age we understand the mechanisms of earthquakes.

Some people will turn to God.

Others will say 'it is but an earthquake'.

Why does it require so many words to speak of a single thing?

I was not asking about the end times but the prophesy that foretold His
being born at the time he was in that time and the proofs of that
prophesy.

AB
I was just answering about the day we crossover you spoke of. I will
look into what you are speaking of. Blessings.. Miles

When you cross the veil there will be no gap. For you it happens at
that moment.

Who knows what is the time that God sees. His time is not ours.

If the Magi are truly astrologers rather than local shepherds then Paul
has some interesting comments to show why the Magi must bow to Jesus
rather than attempt to replace Him:

THOUGH I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not
charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1
Corinthians 13:1

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars;
and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the
waves roaring; Lu.21:25

The news was being spread all over about a new born King. Herod had
great discomfiture over a "baby born king of the Jews." It could well be
the occasion for a murderous rampage in the city.

"Herod did not know the Hebrew Scripture, so he called together the
chief priests and teachers of the Law of Moses to get to the bottom of
what was happening. They informed him, based on a statement from Micah
5:2, that the Jewish Messiah was to come from Bethlehem of Judah.

"An interesting thing about Micah 5:2 is that it is not quoted quite
accurately at Matthew 2:6. A closing line is added to the prophecy from
2 Samuel 5:2, so that it reads this way:

But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for out of you will come a ruler
who will be the shepherd of my people Israel.' Matthew 2:6 NInt.V

Micah NInt.5 reads:
But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old, from ancient times. Micah 5:2NInt.5


THEN came all the tribes of Israel to David unto Hebron, and spake,
saying, Behold, we are thy bone and thy flesh. 2 Samuel 5:1

Also in time past, when Saul was king over us, thou wast he that leddest
out and broughtest in Israel: and the Lord said to thee, Thou shalt feed
my people Israel, and thou shalt be a captain over Israel. 2 Samuel 5:2

It might be that they quoted Micah accurately and it was recorded
accurately and that the last line is not a quotation but an explanation.

This speaks clearly of the human David and it is not necessary to reach
back that far as far as Samuel for the "shepherd" statements.

The value of allowing the Bible to speak where it speaks is that we
don't ascribe error to it. First, the answer must fit the question. So,
what was the question?
"And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the
people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
Matthew 2:4"

If we look for accurate use of Micah as recorded by Matthew 2:6 the
question is answered.

And thou, Bethleem, house of Ephratha, art few in number to be reckoned
among the thousands of Judah; yet out of thee shall one come forth to
me, to be a ruler of Israel; and his goings forth were from the
beginning, even from eternity. Michah 2:2
He will be a king but over a spiritual realm and He will be a shepherd
so superior to the earthly shepherds or perhaps astrologers that they
with all of their rituals must bow before Him.

Remember that Jesus said that the Word had been delivered in parables
"from the foundation of the world." (Matt 13). Why? It was to hide the
truth from those who do not love the truth. Isaiah 48 goes further to
have God explaining that this is to keep the Word away from the
"repackagers and retailers" of the free Word (Isa 55). Therefore,
wittingly or not they absolutely pointed the sincere seeker of the Word
back to Micah to get the ammunition to fend off those specializing in
fleecing the flock.

Paul insisted that if we are "filled with the Spirit" or "filled with
the Word of Christ" we will have in our memory banks the Spiritual
vocabulary so that we "speak in Psalms" in order to teach one another.
Therefore, it is elementary that the Apostles were "filled with the
spirit of the Old Testament" and used the "spirit of the prophets" to
make their point without bringing their knowledge or inspiration into
dispute.

And the Lord shall stand, and see, and feed his flock with power, and
they shall dwell in the glory of the name of the Lord their God: for now
shall they be magnified to the ends of the earth. Micah 2:4

Anyone who "steals the glory" in a religious performance ritual is
stealing the glory of the Shepherd and the flock just as the human kings
of the Monarchy of Israel and Judah would take the glory of God and to
place the "flock" under their control so that they could "butt with the
horn and eat the flesh of the lambs."

But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for out of you will come a ruler
who will be the shepherd of my people Israel.' Matthew 2:6NIV
Prophecy of Messiah who cannot be David:

But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands
of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be
ruler in Israel;

Because Micah defines Him as eternal:

whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Micah 5:2KJV

God will come as the One Shepherd and He will do the feeding all by
Himself:

And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even
my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
Ezekiel 34:23

How does He do this? He does it by teaching and inspiring.

(((God does not wait for our permission to draw people to his Beloved
Son. He is doing that constantly. But he does want us to participate in
receiving them into his kingdom, lest our coldness to them become the
final, insurmountable barrier that keeps them from
Christ.)))===================================

I purposefully put this here, for those that mail me and think
I am going against God and His teachings by being kind and seeing good
where good is. By seeing Godly behavior where others do
not.=================================================
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How
beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and
bring glad tidings of good things. Romans 10:15

Does God still call men to himself today? Do all come from the
backgrounds we would like? Do they offer the same form or intensity of
worship we do?

So long as we welcome them into the presence of the Son of God by the
faithful proclamation of the gospel, is God not able to accomplish his
purposes in them?

Kat

Nice post Kat.

thank you.