Topic: Health Care Reform is Against God’s Plan
no photo
Sat 08/15/09 04:55 PM
Health Care Reform is Against God’s Plan
Article found here http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/277338

James Dobson is a right wing conservative leader of Focus on the Family who was adamantly opposed to the election of Barack Obama, declaring he would take away religious rights.

Christian groups are being urged to swamp town hall meetings. Some are being asked to attend and read the riot act to supporters of health care reform. It is, after all, against God’s plan for health reform, some religious right leaders now say.

God and politics are the hot combination in the health care debate. As Obama was painted by some religious right members as the anti-Christ or worse, now his reform measures are being attacked as against the law of God. Health care reform is one area of attack, with town hall meetings going on all over the country. But what do they say about why God doesn’t want people to have health reform?

This is the message from Jean Markell of Maple Grove–based Olive Tree Ministries who has asked her radio listeners to attend congressional town hall meetings and directed to “to there and give them an earful. The ideal thing to do is to to go to their town hall and read them the riot act—in Christian love—but read them the riot act on this issue of health care.”

Still Rep. Michele Bachmann should be spared from criticism, as Markell continued: about the Congress woman from Minnesota: “[Michele Bachmann] is one of my favorite people. She is doing just an outstanding job in Congress standing up for what is right. She’s got a target on her back. You need to pray for her and her family.”

The Minnesota Family Councilsays that Obama’s plan for health care reform is against God’s design and, according to its president, God has created government to do certain things. When we reject His design for government, in a sense, we’re rejecting Him.”Pritchard goes on to explain that Obama expects people to trust government, not God and socialist models are against the laws of God and involve rationing and waiting periods for care.

The Christian Coalition of America has a similar message, warning Christians about Barack Obama’s health care program as alien to God and Christian teachings. They maintain “that reform of health care would “provide care to illegal aliens, while rationing care to elderly and disabled American citizens.” This pits seniors against immigrants in the health care reform debate.

They also declare on their webpage, “Stop the takeover. Visit our action center.”

Other groups gathering to make an assault on health care at town hall meetings include Americans for Truth, The Family Research Council and Focus on the Family. Focus on the Family specifically requests members to attend town hall meetings and “demand that abortion funding be explicitly excluded from any reform bill.”
The American Family Association tells its members to keep the pressure on: “Don’t let the liberal left silence you! The future of our country and our children and grandchildren is at stake.”

All of this occurs as more and more people have lost jobs and health insurance and people continue to be excluded from health insurance plans because of pre-existing health conditions. These issues, however, don’t seem to be addressed in the Christian right message that declares health care reform as proposed not to be part of God’s plan and therefore to be rejected.

heavenlyboy34's photo
Sat 08/15/09 05:09 PM
Edited by heavenlyboy34 on Sat 08/15/09 05:11 PM
he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.

no photo
Sat 08/15/09 05:34 PM

he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.


Personally I prefer to deal with people that actually exist in the real world. Religious folks would love to have the power of governing people, I would find that much worse considering some of the things some of those they believe. Obama is no where near as scary as religious control.

Winx's photo
Sat 08/15/09 05:42 PM
Since when is God against health care reform?laugh


"The Christian Coalition of America has a similar message, warning Christians about Barack Obama’s health care program as alien to God and Christian teachings.

That sounds so un-Christian to me.frustrated





Winx's photo
Sat 08/15/09 06:04 PM

he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.


Being a Christian is about helping others too.

MirrorMirror's photo
Sat 08/15/09 06:06 PM

he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.



slaphead THAT IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYSslaphead

MirrorMirror's photo
Sat 08/15/09 06:07 PM


he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.


Personally I prefer to deal with people that actually exist in the real world. Religious folks would love to have the power of governing people, I would find that much worse considering some of the things some of those they believe. Obama is no where near as scary as religious control.
flowerforyou Dont sweat it.flowerforyou That is not what the bible says anyways.flowerforyou That would defy any common sense whatsoverlaugh

MirrorMirror's photo
Sat 08/15/09 06:10 PM

Since when is God against health care reform?laugh


"The Christian Coalition of America has a similar message, warning Christians about Barack Obama’s health care program as alien to God and Christian teachings.

That sounds so un-Christian to me.frustrated







drinker And James Dobson would know, since he is alien to GOD and Christian teachings as welllaugh

heavenlyboy34's photo
Sat 08/15/09 06:14 PM
Edited by heavenlyboy34 on Sat 08/15/09 06:16 PM


he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.


Personally I prefer to deal with people that actually exist in the real world. Religious folks would love to have the power of governing people, I would find that much worse considering some of the things some of those they believe. Obama is no where near as scary as religious control.


Depends on which religion. Deists and classical (anti-State) Christians have better ethics and reasoning ability than average. The government has always been more of a threat than religion, because the Government has a monopoly on the use of force/coercion, while religions usually rely on voluntarism of some sort.

In the absence of religion or ethics, a government (or any group of people) inevitably makes up its own ethical code and invariably turns to tyranny and unethical behavior.

KerryO's photo
Sat 08/15/09 06:26 PM


Depends on which religion. Deists and classical (anti-State) Christians have better ethics and reasoning ability than average. The government has always been more of a threat than religion, because the Government has a monopoly on the use of force/coercion, while religions usually rely on voluntarism of some sort.

In the absence of religion or ethics, a government (or any group of people) inevitably makes up its own ethical code and invariably turns to tyranny and unethical behavior.


How, then, do you explain the Spanish Inquisition?

How ethical is slavery, which was supported by many religious people in the early United States as divine law.

These and many more examples can be tendered of human rights abuses when the Church and State are One.

-Kerry O.

Quietman_2009's photo
Sat 08/15/09 06:28 PM
Ayatollah Dobson?

what's the difference between his law and Sharia?

heavenlyboy34's photo
Sat 08/15/09 06:32 PM



Depends on which religion. Deists and classical (anti-State) Christians have better ethics and reasoning ability than average. The government has always been more of a threat than religion, because the Government has a monopoly on the use of force/coercion, while religions usually rely on voluntarism of some sort.

In the absence of religion or ethics, a government (or any group of people) inevitably makes up its own ethical code and invariably turns to tyranny and unethical behavior.


How, then, do you explain the Spanish Inquisition?

How ethical is slavery, which was supported by many religious people in the early United States as divine law.

These and many more examples can be tendered of human rights abuses when the Church and State are One.

-Kerry O.


You've mentioned great examples of how the State hijacks religion to justify its inherent evil. Slavery was opposed by plenty of religious people, so that's not a great example. (btw, please note that I'm not a "champion" of religion in any significant way, but moreso an opponent of Statism)

MirrorMirror's photo
Sat 08/15/09 06:32 PM



he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.


Personally I prefer to deal with people that actually exist in the real world. Religious folks would love to have the power of governing people, I would find that much worse considering some of the things some of those they believe. Obama is no where near as scary as religious control.


Depends on which religion. Deists and classical (anti-State) Christians have better ethics and reasoning ability than average. The government has always been more of a threat than religion, because the Government has a monopoly on the use of force/coercion, while religions usually rely on voluntarism of some sort.

In the absence of religion or ethics, a government (or any group of people) inevitably makes up its own ethical code and invariably turns to tyranny and unethical behavior.


:smile: You are usually right and make a lot of good points but I think you may be a little off base on this topic heavenlyboy:smile:This GOD and bible stuff is so subjective that it is just ludicrous what Dobson said.:smile: Virtually nothing in the bible pertains to healthcare or any other current issue except thru only the most vague interpretations(that no one will agree on).:smile: The people who wrote that book had no concept of anything like Healthcare or democracy or a lot of other issues we deal with in our society.:smile:The bible is mainly a book of morality tales.:smile:

AdventureBegins's photo
Sat 08/15/09 09:23 PM


he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.



slaphead THAT IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYSslaphead

His Holiness Christ rendered unto cesaer... That which was his... God does not tax.

MirrorMirror's photo
Sun 08/16/09 02:15 AM



he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.



slaphead THAT IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYSslaphead

His Holiness Christ rendered unto cesaer... That which was his... God does not tax.


:smile: Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars, and render unto God what is GODS:smile:

Giocamo's photo
Sun 08/16/09 09:16 AM


he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.


Being a Christian is about helping others too.


the problem is all these social programs were put in place as a sort of a safety net...and...for far too many Americans they've become a hammock !...:smile: ...and...as for helping others...God helps those...who help themselves...

no photo
Sun 08/16/09 10:39 AM



he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.


Being a Christian is about helping others too.


the problem is all these social programs were put in place as a sort of a safety net...and...for far too many Americans they've become a hammock !...:smile: ...and...as for helping others...God helps those...who help themselves...


You been hearing voices again Gio?

Winx's photo
Sun 08/16/09 01:54 PM
Edited by Winx on Sun 08/16/09 01:55 PM



he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.


Being a Christian is about helping others too.


the problem is all these social programs were put in place as a sort of a safety net...and...for far too many Americans they've become a hammock !...:smile: ...and...as for helping others...God helps those...who help themselves...

1 Corinthians 10:24

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

Proverbs 11

24 One man gives freely, yet gains even more;
another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty.

25 A generous man will prosper;
he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed.

Matthew 25

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’


Gio, my child goes to a Christian school. One of things that my child is learning there is to help others that are less fortunate.

This summer my child went with a church group to take food to a food pantry in the inner city. While they were there, they pulled weeds in a lot. My child has to do service hours each quarter. Those hours are spent helping others.

That's an important part of being a Christian - helping others that are less fortunate then oneself and not judging them.


TJN's photo
Sun 08/16/09 02:11 PM




he's partly right. But if you dig into the bible text, the government itself is against Yahweh's plan (as it usurps powers previously exclusive to him-such as taxation, ordering people around, etc.) and encourages people of faith to rely on the State rather than Yahweh.


Being a Christian is about helping others too.


the problem is all these social programs were put in place as a sort of a safety net...and...for far too many Americans they've become a hammock !...:smile: ...and...as for helping others...God helps those...who help themselves...

1 Corinthians 10:24

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

Proverbs 11

24 One man gives freely, yet gains even more;
another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty.

25 A generous man will prosper;
he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed.

Matthew 25

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’


Gio, my child goes to a Christian school. One of things that my child is learning there is to help others that are less fortunate.

This summer my child went with a church group to take food to a food pantry in the inner city. While they were there, they pulled weeds in a lot. My child has to do service hours each quarter. Those hours are spent helping others.

That's an important part of being a Christian - helping others that are less fortunate then oneself and not judging them.



It's one thing to help others with your time or by donateing your money to a cause you think is worthy.

But the government should have no part of taking your money and giving to whomever or whatever they deem necessary.

raiderfan_32's photo
Sun 08/16/09 02:34 PM
I find it, well, hysterical that those who argue so vehemently for a strict separation of church and state will cite scripture to justify the need for government social programs.