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Topic: Bush tortured children, and America yawns
MirrorMirror's photo
Tue 08/11/09 10:10 AM

I was just wondering how many people were actualy found guilty who were tortured? How many inoccent?
:smile: They were probably all innocent.:smile: Thats why they tortured them for false confessions.:smile:

Bestinshow's photo
Tue 08/11/09 02:45 PM


I was just wondering how many people were actualy found guilty who were tortured? How many inoccent?
:smile: They were probably all innocent.:smile: Thats why they tortured them for false confessions.:smile:
Isnt this whole torture thing a discrace to all the vetreans who fought in WW2 and helped enable the Nuremburg trials of the Nazis? I cant help but wonder how a nation that once seeked justice for crimes against humanity now commits those crimes.

InvictusV's photo
Wed 08/12/09 10:27 AM
Are you JOKING?

We completely destroyed entire cities. Full of civilians.. Ever heard of Dresden? We set 80% of tokyo on fire. Killing more civilians than both the atomic bombs combined.

This story is so FnING absurd that its not even really worth commenting on.

I know most people find history to be boring but read some FnING books.

Bestinshow's photo
Thu 08/13/09 04:57 AM

Are you JOKING?

We completely destroyed entire cities. Full of civilians.. Ever heard of Dresden? We set 80% of tokyo on fire. Killing more civilians than both the atomic bombs combined.

This story is so FnING absurd that its not even really worth commenting on.

I know most people find history to be boring but read some FnING books.
November 21, 1945, in the Palace of Justice at Nuremberg, Germany, Justice Robert H. Jackson, Chief of Counsel for the United States, made his opening statement to the International Military Tribunal in Case No. 1, The United States of America, the French Republic, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics v. Hermann Wilhelm Göring, et al.
Jackson’s opening statement is published in II Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal 98-155 (Nuremberg: IMT, 1947) (“the Blue Set”) and in his own book The Nürnberg Case (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, Inc. 1947; republished New York: Cooper Square Publishers, Inc., 1971), and it is available on the web, as part of the the full record of the proceedings before the IMT, through the Avalon Project at Yale Law School, http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm.

*****

Robert H. Jackson
Chief of Counsel for the United States
Nuremberg, Germany
November 21, 1945

May it please Your Honors:

The privilege of opening the first trial in history for crimes against the peace of the world imposes a grave responsibility. The wrongs which we seek to condemn and punish have been so calculated, so malignant, and so devastating, that civilization cannot tolerate their being ignored, because it cannot survive their being repeated. That four great nations, flushed with victory and stung with injury stay the hand of vengeance and voluntarily submit their captive enemies to the judgment of the law is one of the most significant tributes that Power has ever paid to Reason.

This Tribunal, while it is novel and experimental, is not the product of abstract speculations nor is it created to vindicate legalistic theories. This inquest represents the practical effort of four of the most mighty of nations, with the support of 17 more, to utilize international law to meet the greatest menace of our times-aggressive war. The common sense of mankind demands that law shall not stop with the punishment of petty crimes by little people. It must also reach men who possess themselves of great power and make deliberate and concerted use of it to set in motion evils which. leave no home in the world untouched. It is a cause of that magnitude that the United Nations will lay before Your Honors.

In the prisoners' dock sit twenty-odd broken men. Reproached by the humiliation of those they have led almost as bitterly as by the desolation of those they have attacked, their personal capacity for evil is forever past. It is hard now to perceive in these men as captives the power by which as Nazi leaders they once dominated much of the world and terrified most of it. Merely as individuals their fate is of little consequence to the world.

What makes this inquest significant is that these prisoners represent sinister influences that will lurk in the world long after their bodies have returned to dust. We will show them to be living symbols of racial hatreds, of terrorism and violence, and of the arrogance and cruelty of power. They are symbols of fierce nationalisms and of militarism, of intrigue and war-making which have embroiled Europe generation after generation, crushing its manhood, destroying its homes, and impoverishing its life. They have so identified themselves with the philosophies they conceived and with the forces they directed that any tenderness to them is a victory and an encouragement to all the evils which are attached to their names. Civilization can afford no compromise with the social forces which would gain renewed strength if we deal ambiguously or indecisively with the men in whom those forces now precariously survive.

What these men stand for we will patiently and temperately disclose. We will give you undeniable proofs of incredible events. The catalog of crimes will omit nothing that could be conceived by a pathological pride, cruelty, and lust for power. These men created in Germany, under the "Führerprinzip", a National Socialist despotism equalled only by the dynasties of the ancient East. They took from the German people all those dignities and freedoms that we hold natural and inalienable rights in every human being. The people were compensated by inflaming and gratifying hatreds towards those who were marked as "scapegoats". Against their opponents, including Jews, Catholics, and free labor, the Nazis directed such a campaign of arrogance, brutality, and annihilation as the world has not witnessed since the pre-Christian ages. They excited the German ambition to be a "master race", which of course implies serfdom for others. They led their people on a mad gamble for domination. They diverted social energies and resources to the creation of what they thought to be an invincible war machine. They overran their neighbors. To sustain the "master race" in its war-making, they enslaved millions of human beings and brought them into Germany, where these hapless creatures now wander as "displaced persons". At length bestiality and bad faith reached such excess that they aroused the sleeping strength of imperiled Civilization. Its united efforts have ground the German war machine to fragments. But the struggle has left Europe a liberated yet prostrate land where a demoralized society struggles to survive. These are the fruits of the sinister forces that sit with these defendants in the prisoners' dock.

In justice to the nations and the men associated in this prosecution, I must remind you of certain difficulties which may leave their mark on this case. Never before in legal history has an effort been made to bring within the scope of a single litigation the developments of a decade, covering a whole continent, and involving a score of nations, countless individuals, and innumerable events. Despite the magnitude of the task, the world has demanded immediate action. This demand has had to be met, though perhaps at the cost of finished craftsmanship. To my country, established courts, following familiar procedures, applying well-thumbed precedents, and dealing with the legal consequences of local and limited events seldom commence a trial within a year of the event in litigation. Yet less than 8 months ago today the courtroom in which you sit was an enemy fortress in the hands of German SS troops. Less than 8 months ago nearly all our witnesses and documents were in enemy hands. The law had not been codified, no procedures had been established, no tribunal was in existence, no usable courthouse stood here, none of the hundreds of tons of official German documents had been examined, no prosecuting staff had been assembled, nearly all of the present defendants were at large, and the four prosecuting powers had not yet joined in common cause to try them. I should be the last to deny that the case may well suffer from incomplete researches and quite likely will not be the example of professional work which any of the prosecuting nations would normally wish to sponsor. It is, however, a completely adequate case to the judgment we shall ask you to render, and its full development we shall be obliged to leave to historians.

http://www.roberthjackson.org/Man/theman2-7-8-1/

MirrorMirror's photo
Thu 08/13/09 09:21 AM


Are you JOKING?

We completely destroyed entire cities. Full of civilians.. Ever heard of Dresden? We set 80% of tokyo on fire. Killing more civilians than both the atomic bombs combined.

This story is so FnING absurd that its not even really worth commenting on.

I know most people find history to be boring but read some FnING books.
November 21, 1945, in the Palace of Justice at Nuremberg, Germany, Justice Robert H. Jackson, Chief of Counsel for the United States, made his opening statement to the International Military Tribunal in Case No. 1, The United States of America, the French Republic, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics v. Hermann Wilhelm Göring, et al.
Jackson’s opening statement is published in II Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal 98-155 (Nuremberg: IMT, 1947) (“the Blue Set”) and in his own book The Nürnberg Case (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, Inc. 1947; republished New York: Cooper Square Publishers, Inc., 1971), and it is available on the web, as part of the the full record of the proceedings before the IMT, through the Avalon Project at Yale Law School, http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm.

*****

Robert H. Jackson
Chief of Counsel for the United States
Nuremberg, Germany
November 21, 1945

May it please Your Honors:

The privilege of opening the first trial in history for crimes against the peace of the world imposes a grave responsibility. The wrongs which we seek to condemn and punish have been so calculated, so malignant, and so devastating, that civilization cannot tolerate their being ignored, because it cannot survive their being repeated. That four great nations, flushed with victory and stung with injury stay the hand of vengeance and voluntarily submit their captive enemies to the judgment of the law is one of the most significant tributes that Power has ever paid to Reason.

This Tribunal, while it is novel and experimental, is not the product of abstract speculations nor is it created to vindicate legalistic theories. This inquest represents the practical effort of four of the most mighty of nations, with the support of 17 more, to utilize international law to meet the greatest menace of our times-aggressive war. The common sense of mankind demands that law shall not stop with the punishment of petty crimes by little people. It must also reach men who possess themselves of great power and make deliberate and concerted use of it to set in motion evils which. leave no home in the world untouched. It is a cause of that magnitude that the United Nations will lay before Your Honors.

In the prisoners' dock sit twenty-odd broken men. Reproached by the humiliation of those they have led almost as bitterly as by the desolation of those they have attacked, their personal capacity for evil is forever past. It is hard now to perceive in these men as captives the power by which as Nazi leaders they once dominated much of the world and terrified most of it. Merely as individuals their fate is of little consequence to the world.

What makes this inquest significant is that these prisoners represent sinister influences that will lurk in the world long after their bodies have returned to dust. We will show them to be living symbols of racial hatreds, of terrorism and violence, and of the arrogance and cruelty of power. They are symbols of fierce nationalisms and of militarism, of intrigue and war-making which have embroiled Europe generation after generation, crushing its manhood, destroying its homes, and impoverishing its life. They have so identified themselves with the philosophies they conceived and with the forces they directed that any tenderness to them is a victory and an encouragement to all the evils which are attached to their names. Civilization can afford no compromise with the social forces which would gain renewed strength if we deal ambiguously or indecisively with the men in whom those forces now precariously survive.

What these men stand for we will patiently and temperately disclose. We will give you undeniable proofs of incredible events. The catalog of crimes will omit nothing that could be conceived by a pathological pride, cruelty, and lust for power. These men created in Germany, under the "Führerprinzip", a National Socialist despotism equalled only by the dynasties of the ancient East. They took from the German people all those dignities and freedoms that we hold natural and inalienable rights in every human being. The people were compensated by inflaming and gratifying hatreds towards those who were marked as "scapegoats". Against their opponents, including Jews, Catholics, and free labor, the Nazis directed such a campaign of arrogance, brutality, and annihilation as the world has not witnessed since the pre-Christian ages. They excited the German ambition to be a "master race", which of course implies serfdom for others. They led their people on a mad gamble for domination. They diverted social energies and resources to the creation of what they thought to be an invincible war machine. They overran their neighbors. To sustain the "master race" in its war-making, they enslaved millions of human beings and brought them into Germany, where these hapless creatures now wander as "displaced persons". At length bestiality and bad faith reached such excess that they aroused the sleeping strength of imperiled Civilization. Its united efforts have ground the German war machine to fragments. But the struggle has left Europe a liberated yet prostrate land where a demoralized society struggles to survive. These are the fruits of the sinister forces that sit with these defendants in the prisoners' dock.

In justice to the nations and the men associated in this prosecution, I must remind you of certain difficulties which may leave their mark on this case. Never before in legal history has an effort been made to bring within the scope of a single litigation the developments of a decade, covering a whole continent, and involving a score of nations, countless individuals, and innumerable events. Despite the magnitude of the task, the world has demanded immediate action. This demand has had to be met, though perhaps at the cost of finished craftsmanship. To my country, established courts, following familiar procedures, applying well-thumbed precedents, and dealing with the legal consequences of local and limited events seldom commence a trial within a year of the event in litigation. Yet less than 8 months ago today the courtroom in which you sit was an enemy fortress in the hands of German SS troops. Less than 8 months ago nearly all our witnesses and documents were in enemy hands. The law had not been codified, no procedures had been established, no tribunal was in existence, no usable courthouse stood here, none of the hundreds of tons of official German documents had been examined, no prosecuting staff had been assembled, nearly all of the present defendants were at large, and the four prosecuting powers had not yet joined in common cause to try them. I should be the last to deny that the case may well suffer from incomplete researches and quite likely will not be the example of professional work which any of the prosecuting nations would normally wish to sponsor. It is, however, a completely adequate case to the judgment we shall ask you to render, and its full development we shall be obliged to leave to historians.

http://www.roberthjackson.org/Man/theman2-7-8-1/


:thumbsup: This proves it:thumbsup:

boredinaz06's photo
Thu 08/13/09 10:15 AM
Who cares BIG BIGyawn Just another bash America and bash Bush thread, not gonna change a thing.

tohyup's photo
Thu 08/13/09 10:21 AM
G.W. Bush made a nice circus of America.......congratulations to those who supported him and who are still supporting him....enjoy the circus without end....frustrated

InvictusV's photo
Thu 08/13/09 10:57 AM
Proves what Mirror?

That the OP has no comment on the allies killing civilians?

OR is this another case of selective justifiability?


Winx's photo
Thu 08/13/09 11:09 AM

Who cares BIG BIGyawn Just another bash America and bash Bush thread, not gonna change a thing.


Like you don't bash Obama.laugh

MirrorMirror's photo
Thu 08/13/09 11:50 AM

Proves what Mirror?

That the OP has no comment on the allies killing civilians?

OR is this another case of selective justifiability?






:smile: I don't think any of it is justified:smile: I don't have the ability to rationalize and justify anything we do no matter how horrible those actions are. :smile: And it frightens me that so many Americans do have that ability.:smile:

Bestinshow's photo
Fri 08/14/09 05:30 AM


Proves what Mirror?

That the OP has no comment on the allies killing civilians?

OR is this another case of selective justifiability?






:smile: I don't think any of it is justified:smile: I don't have the ability to rationalize and justify anything we do no matter how horrible those actions are. :smile: And it frightens me that so many Americans do have that ability.:smile:
I blame Fox news for enabling people to sink to their lowest levels.

MirrorMirror's photo
Fri 08/14/09 05:42 PM



Proves what Mirror?

That the OP has no comment on the allies killing civilians?

OR is this another case of selective justifiability?






:smile: I don't think any of it is justified:smile: I don't have the ability to rationalize and justify anything we do no matter how horrible those actions are. :smile: And it frightens me that so many Americans do have that ability.:smile:
I blame Fox news for enabling people to sink to their lowest levels.



:smile: Its like a form of collective mental illness:smile: Where is the human decency?huhLizardsgrumble

artman48's photo
Fri 08/14/09 06:13 PM
We must be a continuation of the Roman Empire---Different time ---same s--t!---History does repeat itself.

prisoner's photo
Fri 08/14/09 07:02 PM
Bush tortured kids,Obamas gonna kill old people,it's a trade offsmokin be seeing you

Bestinshow's photo
Fri 08/14/09 07:36 PM

Bush tortured kids,Obamas gonna kill old people,it's a trade offsmokin be seeing you
Text of pp. 425-430 (Section 1233) of the actual health care reform bill (House Bill 3200), which, as far as I can tell after wading through several pages of legalese, merely amends Title 18 of the Social Security Act to stipulate that Medicare will pay for — not mandate — "advance care planning consultations" between individuals and physicians every five years, during which a spectrum of end-of-life options can be explained and discussed so said individuals can knowledgeably choose their own treatment preferences in advance:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2009/07/27/health-care-bill-page-425-the-truth.htm


Logan1976's photo
Fri 08/14/09 09:21 PM
The radicals have taken over. They are passing out the kool aid. Dont drink it for gods sake!

MirrorMirror's photo
Fri 08/14/09 09:25 PM

The radicals have taken over. They are passing out the kool aid. Dont drink it for gods sake!
drinker I boil everything before I drink it to filter out the mind control chemicals the goverment puts in itdrinker

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