omg, this is bad.. thank God for the VA clinics and Hospitals.

The waiting list in Canada are caused by a lack of doctors due to the
closeness to the US. Their Drs. come here where they can make lots more
money leaving them short-handed. Who wouldnt they since American Doctors
can pretty much charge what they will and are generally very wealthy.
Suing them is not as easy as you might think, since you must prove
malpractice and negligence. Most of the legislation is aimed at putting
a cap on the monetary value of the lawsuits.
I disagree with a cap, because how can you say someones loved one's life
is only worth 250,000 dollars. Isnt life priceless?
No one makes these people chose that profession, and they should be more
careful with their diagnoses, studying more and playing Golf less. I
have no pity for them when they are responsible for someones death.
With that said, if we had a system similar to Canada's then their
doctors would be less likely to come to America and practice medicine.
They come here so they too can make bundles of cash, and play golf 3
days a week!

Fanta, knowing several doctors, I would say that you are stereotyping
the majoriy of doctors when those you are describing are in the
minority. My ex-girlfriend was a nurse and the patient load per doctor
was insane. GP's are by no means wealthy as you say and most of them
work 12 hour days. Their salary is set by the company that owns the
clinic s as well as setting their patient load. My doc works for one of
the largest health groups in the state and is a regular guy. He likes to
hunt and fish and enjoys a good cigar to wind down while telling me that
they are bad for me. Most specialists, like GP's, are paid by
the clinic or hospital and negotiate their salaries. The better they
are, the more they are able to negtiate a higher salary. The prices in
HMO's and such are negotiated with the insurance providors, who try to
keep costs down. Insurance companies are pretty much in control. They
invest your premiums in different investment vehicles in an attempt to
increase revenue from those investments. Terrorist acts, malpractice
suits, natural disasters and more, Remember 9/11? mean that they WILL
raise premiums to offset their losses because they won't be the ones to
take the hit. I'm not defending the healthcare system because as we all
know, it needs serious change but I am slamming the insurance companies.
Ever see an insurance company take a loss and not quickly bounce back?

Knowing several doctors myself, I will say Ba-Humbug.
Being a victim of a few of their incompetence, I will say they make
hasty diagnoses, make a lot of assumptions, and don't listen to their
patients. I also know, by being a victim that it is very hard to sue
them.

Watching a documentary about the reasons perspective doctors were in
Medical School, the majority, 90%, said for the financial benefits, and
not their want to help people. Sure there are few that are in the
profession that work hard and really care, but very few.

The post I made however, was about the reason the Canadian Health care
system was so dismal, with long waiting lists for simple tests, and
medical procedures. For this I stand by what I said and make no
apologies. The fact that Canadian doctors come to the US for money
rather than stay in Canada to practice medicine backs up these claims
with their own actions. I say if America had an equal system then you
would see less Canadian doctors running to the US to get rich, and more
staying home to help their own country men. Therefore cutting down on
the waiting times in Canada for simple medical tests and procedures.

Knowing several doctors myself, I will say Ba-Humbug.
Being a victim of a few of their incompetence, I will say they make
hasty diagnoses, make a lot of assumptions, and don't listen to their
patients. I also know, by being a victim that it is very hard to sue
them.

Watching a documentary about the reasons perspective doctors were in
Medical School, the majority, 90%, said for the financial benefits, and
not their want to help people. Sure there are few that are in the
profession that work hard and really care, but very few.

The post I made however, was about the reason the Canadian Health care
system was so dismal, with long waiting lists for simple tests, and
medical procedures. For this I stand by what I said and make no
apologies. The fact that Canadian doctors come to the US for money
rather than stay in Canada to practice medicine backs up these claims
with their own actions. I say if America had an equal system then you
would see less Canadian doctors running to the US to get rich, and more
staying home to help their own country men. Therefore cutting down on
the waiting times in Canada for simple medical tests and procedures.

damn, I hate that! Sticky keys

Had that happen a couple of
times myself.

Duly noted, now, what would change other than possibly the waiting list?
Or would that change at all? Reducing the reason 90% of American and
Canadian (eh) doctors get into that profession which is money driven
would reduce the number of doctors going into the system and more of
them opting for the more lucrative private practice where cash is king
would it not? Back to square one but with a huge tax burden to support
the beurocracy that would govern the socialized health care system. It
is economics. Pure and simple. I agree that we need change
but cannot see socialized health care as the solution. But then......
there is one solution........ Soylent Green.

It's not bah humbug, its "bark bark".

Tough questions you pose there Zap!!!!
I'll have to be petty hear and say it works in the military. Why cant it
work in the civilian world?
One thing it might result in is fewer Dr's overall as people look for
riches elsewhere, instead of being Dr's for the love of helping people.

The **** about the lawsuits is just that though. Limit it to 250,00
dollars max., no, no, no,!!! These Drs on TV claiming malpractice
insurance is killing them, while they sit in their plush homes doesn't
carry with me. If a persons child dies because of a Drs incompetence,
who are we to put a set price on the death and personal loss of
that?

OK, No buisness no private practices!! In the US in 1998 the visits to
clinics oppossed to private practices was 3.9% higher. Just imagine if
we could go there for free! No patients would make private practice a
losing enterprise, and of the ones that survived in affluent communities
the price would go down as a result of competion.


The Japanese have a universal health care system too. Only they do not
have the US at their doorstep like Canada:

The Japanese health care system presents a tantalizing puzzle. On the
positive side, universal health insurance has been achieved at
relatively low cost and the health indexes of infant mortality and life
expectancy at birth are among the best in the world. However, the system
has been criticized for lack of good management, quality control, and
attention to consumers.

There are problems with the management, but those could be corrected,
could they not!!!

Sorry Glen, just now getting home from work and now I have to run to the
grocery store. Yes, I agree that free
healthcare would be great but as you have stated the Japanese are
having problems with mismanagement. That shocks me! Mismanagement of a
government run program? That wouldn't happen here! The
military medical system works because it is structured and there is a
captive patient base. We simply can't use them as it would be comparing
apples and oranges. As far as putting a price on a life? That's a tough
one that I could not assign a dollar value to, but as far as something
along the line of say, a hemostat closed up inside someone's belly
during a stomach stapling, then yes, I would entertain a cap. That would
obviously be a "warranty" surgery paid for by the hospital's insurance
as well as pain, suffering, lost time from work, and two half gallon
squares of Scwann's cherry ice cream. Man I love that stuff! It has the
bigg...... Oh, sorry, where was I? Oh yeah. We need to reign in the
insurance companies that are wasting money because they have an endless
supply (sounds like Washington, eh?)of it and follow in Britain's steps
by making the loser of a lawsuit responsible for the fees of their
opponent's attorneys. Just for starters.
Off to the store! I'll be back.

My papa was an OB/GYN in Beaumont and Houston TX through the 1960's.
This was at the advent of our attempt at some gov. control of medical
care, Medicare and Medicaid. He hated what he saw coming and what will
come if the gov. gets full control of any segment of health care. Even
though at my age, I should be alot more liberal that I am, I have got to
remain staunchly conservative in my view. As a retire school teacher,
I've seem first hand what the gov. has done in the area of education.
Paperwrok and red tape and loss of funds to make sure kids don't get
junk food at school. Result? More junk food somewhere else. Some
things can't be legislated--morality and health care. And NO. We were
not rolling in the green?

Off the topic, but hot off the 10 o'clock news. Farrah Fawcett has left
the US to be treated for her cancer in Germany. They'll be using
mistletoe extract to shrink the tumors. I'm sure she'll have the same
success as Steve McQueen did with the Apricots' Pits Treatment he
received in Mexico. I'm staying right here.

A hemostat closed up inside someones belly,,,,Pull the idiot's license
to practice medicine, and I to might then entertain a cap, but then it
would depend on how much damage that resulted in. That would be the
epitome of a blundering incompetent fool to do something that careless.
To me who was responsible would fall in their hands, but we could go
with the hospital since they hired him, and let them and the Dr sort
that out between them.

Making the loser of a lawsuit responsible for the fees of their
opponent's attorneys. Yes, for sure, that would keep down the incidence
of frivolous lawsuits, and is an excellent idea.

Hmmmm Im listening to this and Im seeing that there are few if any
canadians talking about this. Im thinking why don't we ask a real live
Canadian????

Hmmmm let me see.......how about me???? I am Canadian..

I will dumb it down for you......I can go see my doctor 500 times in one
month if I want to and it costs me $0.00

Some people actually have to pay $50.00 a month and they too can go see
their doctor 500 or more times a month. Hmmmm what a terrible system we
have here!!!!

Now, if say, you have cataracts??? there could be a wait between 3 -16
months....true.......but usually its in 3 or 6 months....not a bad
statistic considering it doesnt cost $30,000 or more.

How much better would it be if we had the same system? Would it improve
yours or make it worse?

I think it would improve your system most definately!!! PPl wouldnt have
to wait 10 years to go to the doctor and then when its too late end up
on dialysis because they are so far gone they need a kidney transplant.
This is what happened to my american husband. He goes to dialysis 3
times a week for 4 hours before work.

Now.......to make our country better or worse by not having the option
to go to the usa??? Let me put it this way....canadian nurses are better
trained than american ones....plain and simple. This is why they come
here to recruit canadian nurses. Ive also been to the hospitals in the
usa. Sorry to say but I was so shocked by the inadequacy of the nurses,
doctors etc. They did an operation on me without anesthetic!!! How
cruel.....I cried the whole time. This would not happen in any canadian
hospital because of "lack" of insurance!!!!

Thats what I thought. It would be hard for a doctor to stay there when
they could come here and get filthy rich.
What does your system pay Doctors?

Our doctors get paid alot of money.......don't let that fool you. But
the american dollar is more.......privatization is a complete money
maker for the doctor, not the patient!!! Its almost laughable!!! The
doctors here are overworked...and its their priority to go to the usa
and make more.

My sister is an rn and went to work in texas. Complete joke....the
patient/nurse ratio was 16 to 1 which is considered "unsafe". Also,
when she needed to see a doctor, she didn't have the "right" insurance
and had to wait 6 months to see a doctor for something "minor".

I broke my arm once. I went to the emergency room, where they x-rayed
it, wrapped it with an ace bandage and sent me to a bone and joint dr to
get it set and a cast put on.
OOps no insurance?, Nope, Cash? nope, well we cant do anything!
What? we cant do anything!
This was a tuesday, I said I dont get paid till Friday! Well come back
then! what? come back then!
I turn around thinking maybe if I draw my bank account dry that will
work!
There is a crew entering with their equipment to clean a fish Aquraium
that was built into the wall! It covered the entire 20 ft. of wall!
I went back to the little window. I said I can pay Friday cant we work
something out?
No, If you dont have insurance or cash we cant do anything!
My arm was broken in 3 places and hurt like hell!
I was pissed, it showed, they called the cops! LMAO, funny now, wasnt
then! Cops escorted me off after threatening me several times with
force. I thought they were going to cuff me! LOL
Friday, I went to a different dr.
American Healthcare!!!!
Im a Veteran too!!! What a joke!!