Topic: Court rejects challenge to 'don't ask, don't tell'
yellowrose10's photo
Mon 06/08/09 09:53 AM
WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court on Monday agreed with the Obama administration and upheld Pentagon policy barring gays and lesbians from serving openly in the military.

The court said it will not hear an appeal from former Army Capt. James Pietrangelo II, who was dismissed under the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. The federal appeals court in Boston earlier threw out a lawsuit filed by Pietrangelo and 11 other veterans. He was the only member of that group who asked the high court to rule that the Clinton-era policy is unconstitutional.

During last year's campaign, President Barack Obama indicated he supported the eventual repeal of the policy, but he has made no specific move to do so since taking office in January. Meanwhile, the White House has said it won't stop gays and lesbians from being dismissed from the military.

In court papers, the administration said the appeals court ruled correctly in this case when it found that "don't ask, don't tell" is "rationally related to the government's legitimate interest in military discipline and cohesion."

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman referred requests for comment to the Justice Department, but said the military policy "implements the law."

"The law requires the (Defense) Department to separate from the armed services members who engage in or attempt to engage in homosexual acts; state they are homosexual or bisexual; or marry or attempt to marry a person of the same biological sex," Whitman said in a statement.

A legal advocacy group vowed to press ahead with efforts to reverse the policy despite the legal setback.

"We don't see that at all as bad news for repeal," said Kevin Nix, spokesman for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. "What happened today puts the ball back into the court of Congress and the White House to repeal the law, and that's where we think it should be right now."

Nix said there are no objective studies showing unit cohesion, morale and order are harmed by openly gay people.

"There are people out there and still serving, and the unit is not crumbling beneath their feet," he said, adding that attitudes among troops and society are far different than they were in the 1990s when the policy was instituted.

"Times have changed ... fast forward 16 years," Nix said. "The service members in Iraq and Afghanistan — their attitudes toward gay people are very different than some retired generals in their 50s and 60s who served in the 20th Century. It's a different world."

Opposition to gay marriages, for example, has eased nationwide and six states have legalized same-sex unions. New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, Vermont and Iowa allow gay marriage, though opponents hope to overturn Maine's law with a public vote.

California briefly allowed gay marriage before a public vote banned it; a court ruling grandfathered in couples who were already married.

Polls show younger Americans are far are more tolerant of gay marriage than are older generations.

The "don't ask, don't tell" policy was established in 1993. President Bill Clinton had to abandon efforts to allow gays to serve openly in the armed forces after facing strong resistance from the military and members of Congress.

Last year, the federal appeals court in San Francisco allowed a decorated flight nurse to continue her lawsuit over her dismissal. The court stopped short of declaring the policy unconstitutional, but said that the Air Force must prove that ousting former Maj. Margaret Witt furthered the military's goals of troop readiness and unit cohesion.

The decision by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals was the first that evaluated "don't ask, don't tell" through the lens of a 2003 Supreme Court decision that struck down a Texas ban on sodomy as an unconstitutional intrusion on privacy.

The administration did not appeal that ruling to the Supreme Court and Witt's lawsuit is ongoing.

The appeals court in Pietrangelo's case also took the high court decision into account, but concluded that it should defer to Congress' determination that the policy fosters cohesion in military units.

The case is Pietrangelo v. Gates, 08-824.


yellowrose10's photo
Mon 06/08/09 09:57 AM
having never been in the military myself....what is the problem if someone is gay? I don't get this

silly's photo
Mon 06/08/09 09:59 AM

having never been in the military myself....what is the problem if someone is gay? I don't get this


I'm with u.Should just except all people.:smile:

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 06/08/09 10:03 AM
one more thing I've never understood. I THINK there is a reason that the military gives but I don't know what it is. I know some gay people that are tougher than some straights...I would rather have them in my corner in a fight lol.

the movie the Birdcage had a great line. they were talking about this subject and one character said he (posing as a woman) used to feel that way until he found out Alexander The Great was gay

Dragoness's photo
Mon 06/08/09 10:20 AM
I agree with the don't ask don't tell philosophy myself. Every person in this worlds sexual orientation should be their private business anyway.

I have sexual turn ons I am not willing to spout out to everyone but it shouldn't make me any less of a person, ya know?

As for gays in the military, they have been there all along.

People have been gay since we evolved, it is nothing new.

Gays have been in every walk of life all this time.


Should a person be released from a job whether it be military or whatever because they are gay, hell no.

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 06/08/09 10:23 AM
Don't ask, don't tell is the common term for the policy about homosexuality in the U.S. military mandated by federal law Pub.L. 103-160 (10 U.S.C. § 654). Unless one of the exceptions from 10 U.S.C. § 654(b) applies, the policy prohibits anyone who "demonstrate(s) a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts" from serving in the armed forces of the United States, because it "would create an unacceptable risk to the high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability." The act prohibits any homosexual or bisexual person from disclosing his or her sexual orientation or from speaking about any homosexual relationships, including marriages or other familial attributes, while serving in the United States armed forces. The "don't ask" part of the policy indicates that superiors should not initiate investigation of a service member's orientation in the absence of disallowed behaviors, though mere suspicion of homosexual behavior can cause an investigation.
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signed into law by Clinton

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ReddBeans's photo
Mon 06/08/09 10:24 AM
There are Gays, Bis an Lesbians in the military, in every branch of the military. Knew quite a few when I was in the AF. The homophobes feel that they aren't capable of doin their job as well. What a load of horsesh*t!! I'll take a gay man standin next to me with a M16 over a straight man anyday. Cause he ain't gonna concern himself with "Oh she's female, she ain't gonna be able to shot an hit nuthin" or "Oh she's female, we've gotta protect her cause she has a vagina" Only thing they wanna know is do I have his back an u better believe I would.shades

no photo
Mon 06/08/09 01:13 PM

There are Gays, Bis an Lesbians in the military, in every branch of the military. Knew quite a few when I was in the AF. The homophobes feel that they aren't capable of doin their job as well. What a load of horsesh*t!! I'll take a gay man standin next to me with a M16 over a straight man anyday. Cause he ain't gonna concern himself with "Oh she's female, she ain't gonna be able to shot an hit nuthin" or "Oh she's female, we've gotta protect her cause she has a vagina" Only thing they wanna know is do I have his back an u better believe I would.shades


That's what really cracks me up about all this. Those that don't like gays will love this rulling, but it means squat to me because it has not stopped gays from serving in the military, they are as you have said all over the damn place for pete sakes.

ReddBeans's photo
Mon 06/08/09 01:18 PM


There are Gays, Bis an Lesbians in the military, in every branch of the military. Knew quite a few when I was in the AF. The homophobes feel that they aren't capable of doin their job as well. What a load of horsesh*t!! I'll take a gay man standin next to me with a M16 over a straight man anyday. Cause he ain't gonna concern himself with "Oh she's female, she ain't gonna be able to shot an hit nuthin" or "Oh she's female, we've gotta protect her cause she has a vagina" Only thing they wanna know is do I have his back an u better believe I would.shades


That's what really cracks me up about all this. Those that don't like gays will love this rulling, but it means squat to me because it has not stopped gays from serving in the military, they are as you have said all over the damn place for pete sakes.


One of my best friends in the AF was Bi an I'd follow him into the trenches anydaydrinker

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 06/08/09 02:25 PM


There are Gays, Bis an Lesbians in the military, in every branch of the military. Knew quite a few when I was in the AF. The homophobes feel that they aren't capable of doin their job as well. What a load of horsesh*t!! I'll take a gay man standin next to me with a M16 over a straight man anyday. Cause he ain't gonna concern himself with "Oh she's female, she ain't gonna be able to shot an hit nuthin" or "Oh she's female, we've gotta protect her cause she has a vagina" Only thing they wanna know is do I have his back an u better believe I would.shades


That's what really cracks me up about all this. Those that don't like gays will love this rulling, but it means squat to me because it has not stopped gays from serving in the military, they are as you have said all over the damn place for pete sakes.


they can be gay...just not openingly gay. BS IMO. if straights can be openingly straight...then gays can too. sexual preferences doesn't mean someone can't do their jobs. if the activity gets in the way of a job...I could understand...but it should be on both side. how many women have gotten pregnant and sent home (effeects the job) or if someone is "busy" when they are supposed to be doing a job....effects their. someones sexual preference while off duty....no ones business.

I read something about sodomy laws? straights do that too. I understand a soldier is GI....but shouldn't it apply to brothels (where diseases can occur), smoking, drinking, whatever as well?

I really don't understand all of this and wish someone could explain the hypocricy I see

no photo
Tue 06/09/09 07:27 PM
Edited by Ciuma on Tue 06/09/09 07:33 PM
DADT is a work of sheer prejudice (I'm glad the people here get it). It is basically saying, "People will be afraid of gays, therefore they should keep it to themselves so they don't scare their fellow soldiers." That's right... military people are the bravest of them all. And you know what really sucks? Gay people can't even put out testimonials to fight this discrimination because DADT is a violation of the first amendment... unless they've been screwed already by it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWlG2gQWW3k