They had (and still have) varying beliefs that changed over timeThere were (and still are) different sects.

Whether he was divine or not he was most certainly human and lived a fully human life. Jesus was actually popular in his community but he ran afoul of the authorities as a lot of popular jewish men in his time did. When this happened they either fled the Holy Land or were killed as Jesus was.

Yes I have heard of these gnostics that Christians or Catholics denounced. Am I correct?

What I find ironic is why where they denounced?

Perhaps they denounced it for it would threaten the old testament in which they needed at the time to survive the events of the past to ensure a future for Christianity later.


If anything I believe Jesus wasn't the son of god, or messiah, or what have you. He was just used to ensure a future for christianity.

Sometimes I wonder if he didn't die on the cross, that he would have somehow managed to escape or live somewhere peaceful what kind of religion would be founded. Would it be Christianity in a different sense that pretty much follows in similiarity of Buddhism?

What would of happen to the old testament? Would they have lost more members or would they have had their scribes write a new book based on a different story to ensure the Christian practice we know today without using Jesus as a sacrificial lamb at the time?

It is ironic how a minor change of events can change history all together.

This is too bad. I would have liked to have read stories of Jesus and his time at a ripe age. I am sure he had more to offer us then his 30 odd years on this planet.

The same thing that happened to Jesus happened to a lot of influential and popular Jewish men during that time period. A lot of them chose exile to Rome or Egypt ,but some of them felt like it was an affront to be driven from their Promised Land and chose to be executed.Jesus was one of these men.

The interesting thing about the teachings of Jesus was that he never departed from the basic Jewish beliefs.However he did put a different spin on some things and did some unusual things such as allowing women into direct participation in his group,preaching and associating with non-Jews,and speaking out against prejudice (Such as his parable of the Good Samaritan)

Jesus was INTENSLY Jewish,heart and soul. He never departed from that, although he did put a unique spin on some things and did a few things that were considered different (but never against the Torah)This made him very popular with the Jewish people.They held a huge parade for him when he visited Jerusalem. He was a celebrity. A lot of the Jewish people tried to defend him when he was brought up on (false)charges and he also knew that he was a wanted man and his life was in danger but he chose death over exile from the promised land of his people. It was all part of his plan.

This is where I would disagree with you. Yes he was Jewish, but he questioned the Torah for its factuality and dealings of how to treat one another.

So again I will mention in his missing years he may have found his calling from a foreign country that had a better philosophy on how to coexist in peace without the resort of harsh punishment tactics that the Abrahamic God gives.

and to not repeat myself again you would have to scroll up a few posts to see the complete story of what I personally think happened.

So yes you have your opinion that you deem as correct and I have mine.

Whatever the reason is we both agree that Jesus was a great guy full of good intentions. That I think we can agree on.

I dont see why he would have to visit a foregn country (India) to come up with some ideas. Do people have to visit India to come up with ideas now?

One doesn't have to go anywhere or even follow a religion to come up with good ideas. To me it is common sense that we don't steal, hurt, cheat, or deceive one another. I can just follow naturlists or humantarians idealogies for that.

What we are trying to figure out is where was Jesus in his missing years? Some say he went to Egypt others say he was in Asian lands.

Some scholars believe that he was in India or its surrounding areas. Now if he was there one has to remember that the majority of the people living there are hindus and buddhism was on the rise.

So he would have naturally been exposed to these philosophies.

And who knows he may have picked up some of the knowledge they have been practicing for thousands of years before the old testament and incorporated them into his practices when he returned to his people.

Or are you saying that the Torah and the Bible are peaceful documents that show morales of how to live amongst each other in peace? I so happen not to think so and feel they are dangerous writings that people should avoid.

If so then we differ in opinion again. Nothing new.

I can show you a list of the history of Christianity and how they have become a world religion. Do you think they did this peacefully?

Well if you do then you have something coming at you when you realize it isn't so.

So in the end ask yourself from all the spiritual practices that are practiced in the world, is Christianity really the most peaceful and moralistic of them all?"

For me personally it isn't.

I choose other spiritual practices that show not only in history that they have a more peaceful attitude about their belief system but also show less atrocities in doing so.

"I can show you a list of the history of Christianity and how they have become a world religion. Do you think they did this peacefully?

Well if you do then you have something coming at you when you realize it isn't so."






I know world history and it doesn't change anything "I believe"

I actually have a major in history when I went to the University of Aachen back home.

I am not here to change your belief system, but I think I am entitled to give my opinion on here.

Believe what you like! By all means.

I never disagreed with you about history



I sort of get the impression that you are projecting onto me all these things that I haven't said.

Well when you put a statement as "What you say doesn't change my belief" then what do you expect me to say afterwords. I am not here to threaten what you believe? I am only here to state my opinions.

Like you preach how people don't like to hear the answers given to them then I can imagine it is no different then the answers I give on these threads.

What I do know is that some do like what I have to say on opinions.

I think my reply was fair.

Having impressions or assuming can be dangerous. I don't assume anything or have a impression from you. I just see you have a different idealogy on what could have happened.

and that is a good thing

for that is how we as a people have evolved over time. From disputing, discussing, debating, disagreeing

to eventually

come with a solution or answer to the problem.

and if not

then it continues until a problem can be resolved.

but concerning religion then we can only speculate if we are honest with ourselves and others.

Of course those who are dedicated to their faith don't agree.

Therefore I end this with a saying that Professor Joseph Campbell always mentions

"Follow your Bliss"

But Smiless, I never felt like my beliefs were being threatened. Thats what I am trying to say. Your opinions are great

Oh no I don't think they are threatening either. They are just a different opinion. That is a good thing. It makes people contemplate and think about such questions philosphers have been asking for thousands of years.

You are more a philosopher then you think.

Keep making people think for that is what keeps us as a people together living in peace.