Previous 1
Topic: Bush attorneys who wrote terror memo face backlash
Fanta46's photo
Wed 05/06/09 08:32 PM
SAN FRANCISCO – Pressure is mounting against two former Bush administration attorneys who wrote the legal memos used to support harsh interrogation techniques that critics say constituted torture. John Yoo, a constitutional law professor at the University of California, Berkeley, is fighting calls for disbarment and dismissal, while Judge Jay Bybee of the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals faces calls for impeachment.

Justice Department investigators have stopped short of recommending criminal charges, but suggest in a draft report that the two men should face professional sanctions. A number of groups across the country agree, and some want even stronger action.

"We believe there is a lot of evidence to suggest that war crimes were committed," said Laura Bonham, deputy director of the Progressive Democrats of America, a group dedicated to rebuilding the Democratic Party. "We believe the memos provided the Central Intelligence Agency with the cover they needed to begin torturing detaines for information."

Bybee and Yoo worked in the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel following the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks and played key roles in crafting the legal justification for the interrogation techniques.

The draft report from an internal Justice Department inquiry sharply criticizes Yoo and Bybee and recommends referring their cases to state bar associations for possible disciplinary actions, a person familiar with the inquiry said. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the inquiry.

Action was not recommended against a third lawyer, Steven Bradbury, who was head of the office at the time the memos were created, a person familiar with the inquiry said. The person, who also was not authorized to publicly discuss the investigation, said investigators found that Bradbury played a lesser role in the creation of the memos. Bradbury is now in private practice.

The recommendations come after an Obama administration decision last month not to prosecute CIA interrogators who followed advice outlined in the memos.

The long-awaited report is still in draft form and subject to revisions. Attorney General Eric Holder also may make his own determination about what steps to take once the report has been finalized.

Yoo's attorney, Miguel Estrada, would not comment, citing an agreement with the Justice Department not to discuss the case. Bybee's attorney, Maureen Mahoney, did not return a message seeking comment Wednesday.

But at a forum last month on the campus of Chapman University School of Law where Yoo is visiting professor, he defended his role in establishing the legal rationale for using waterboarding and other severe interrogation techniques.

"Three thousand of our fellow citizens had been killed in a deliberate attack by a foreign enemy," Yoo told a packed audience on the Southern California campus, according to the Los Angeles Times. "That forced us in the government to have to consider measures to gain information using presidential constitutional provisions to protect the country from further attack."

"Was it worth it?" he asked, brushing off hecklers. "We haven't had an attack in more than seven years."

John Eastman, dean of the Chapman law school, defended the memos.

"He wrote a comprehensive legal analysis of a gray area of the law," Eastman said. "I think John's legal analysis taps into the founders' understanding of the executive."

Yoo, 41, who worked for the Justice Department from 2001 to 2003, has drawn intense criticism and protests since his role in the interrogation memos became public in 2004.

In December, the Berkeley City Council, known for wading into politically charged national and international issues, passed a measure urging the federal government to prosecute Yoo for war crimes.

Human rights and anti-war activists are planning a demonstration at the Berkeley School of Law's May 16 commencement ceremony to press for Yoo to be fired.

"It's unconscionable that the legal architect of the torture apparatus is teaching the future generation of lawyers and judges at UC Berkeley," said Stephanie Tang, an organizer with the group World Can't Wait.

Robert Cole, a professor emeritus at Berkeley's law school, said he believes the university should conduct its own investigation to determine if Yoo's work for the Bush administration violated the campus' faculty code of conduct.

"The university has got to protect its integrity," Cole said. "Every professor we put in the classroom has to have professional competence and ethical integrity."

California Attorney General Jerry Brown, a likely Democratic candidate for governor, said the memos raised questions about whether Yoo should be allowed to teach law at UC Berkeley and called for a full accounting.

"This is not something that should be swept under the rug," he said.

Christopher Edley Jr., Berkeley's law school dean, has rejected calls to dismiss Yoo and says the university doesn't have the expertise or resources to conduct an investigation involving classified intelligence. A tenured professor would have to be convicted of a crime that demonstrates unfitness to be a faculty member to be dismissed by the university.

"Assuming one believes as I do that Professor Yoo offered bad ideas and even worse advice during his government service, that judgment alone would not warrant dismissal or even a potentially chilling inquiry," Edley said in a statement. He added that Yoo "remains a very successful teacher and prolific (but often controversial) scholar."

In Nevada, debate over Bybee's role has been more muted, largely playing out on the opinion pages and among his colleagues at the William S. Boyd School of Law at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Bybee taught constitutional and administrative law and civil procedure from 1999 until 2001 and remains on the faculty.

Legal colleagues, while praising Bybee as a scholar and caring colleague, have criticized the memos, particularly for what some of them say was legal sloppiness and faulty constitutional logic not indicative of his other work.

John Podesta, president of the liberal Center for American Progress and the leader of President Barack Obama's transition team, said, "If he would do the right thing, he should just simply resign."

If he doesn't quit, Podesta said, he should be removed from office.

Nevada Republican Sen. John Ensign, who with Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., sponsored Bybee for the federal judgeship, has defended him and said calls for his impeachment were "outrageous."

"To call for him to be impeached when he was trying to give the proper legal advice is just ridiculous," Ensign told the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

Reid, who has said he was disturbed by the memos, has taken a wait and see attitude.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., a member of the House Judiciary Committee, said impeachment was a "possibility a little down the road," but said he first wanted to see the pending Justice Department report.

He said if the report indicates "Bybee violated professional ethics, we'll have to see whether a special counsel is appointed and the impeachment issue will come after that."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090507/ap_on_re_us/ca_interrogation
_memos;_ylt=Av0Im0GvLaqeskGjm7pNV48UewgF;_ylu=X3oDMTJwZmtubWwyBG
Fzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNTA3L2NhX2ludGVycm9nYXRpb25fbWVtb3MEY3Bvcw
M0BHBvcwM0BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDYnVzaGF0dG9ybmV5

yellowrose10's photo
Wed 05/06/09 08:34 PM
it doesn't make sense to me...if they committed a crime...why not prosecute?

Fanta46's photo
Wed 05/06/09 09:16 PM

it doesn't make sense to me...if they committed a crime...why not prosecute?


They haven't said they wont!

Fanta46's photo
Wed 05/06/09 09:21 PM
They need to!

Me and many more are demanding it!
These are small players though. They just gave The Bush Administration what they requested.

Id have them all up on charges. The CIA Interagators too.


In December, the Berkeley City Council, known for wading into politically charged national and international issues, passed a measure urging the federal government to prosecute Yoo for war crimes.

Human rights and anti-war activists are planning a demonstration at the Berkeley School of Law's May 16 commencement ceremony to press for Yoo to be fired.

"It's unconscionable that the legal architect of the torture apparatus is teaching the future generation of lawyers and judges at UC Berkeley," said Stephanie Tang, an organizer with the group World Can't Wait.




"It's unconscionable that the legal architect of the torture apparatus is teaching the future generation of lawyers and judges at UC Berkeley," said Stephanie Tang, an organizer with the group World Can't Wait.


Fanta46's photo
Wed 05/06/09 09:22 PM
One of them is a Fed Judge!!!!

Havaman's photo
Wed 05/06/09 09:25 PM

it doesn't make sense to me...if they committed a crime...why not prosecute?


That is an easy question to answer....they used to prosecute some of the good ol big boys...just to pardon them later...now they know its a waste of taxpayer money they can shove in thier pockets instead...so why even prosecute?? LOL.. ITS A BIG FRIIGGIN JOKE that most people think...its so great thier goin after these bad guys....YEAH RIGHT... as if they will ever really get what they deserve. I for one am pretty sick of it all.

Fanta46's photo
Wed 05/06/09 09:39 PM


it doesn't make sense to me...if they committed a crime...why not prosecute?


That is an easy question to answer....they used to prosecute some of the good ol big boys...just to pardon them later...now they know its a waste of taxpayer money they can shove in thier pockets instead...so why even prosecute?? LOL.. ITS A BIG FRIIGGIN JOKE that most people think...its so great thier goin after these bad guys....YEAH RIGHT... as if they will ever really get what they deserve. I for one am pretty sick of it all.


Well if they dont then America will fall!

ThomasJB's photo
Wed 05/06/09 10:07 PM

The following memos are some of those known or believed to have been authored, in whole or in part, by John Yoo during his tenure at the Office of Legal Counsel; some remain classified, and in some cases dates are approximate for that reason.

# September 25, 2001 Memorandum for David S. Kris, Associate Deputy Attorney General, "Re: Constitutionality of Amending Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to Change 'Purpose' Standard for Searches" (signed by John C. Yoo). Claims the US Federal Government's "right to self defense" authorized warrantless searches under the Fourth Amendment. Repudiated.

# October 23, 2001 Memorandum for Alberto Gonzales and William J. Haynes, "Re: Authority for Use of Military Force to Combat Terrorist Activities Within the United States" (signed by John C. Yoo and Robert J. Delahunty). Claims the U.S. military can ignore several Constitutional provisions: the Fourth Amendment, the Takings Clause, and the First Amendment.Repudiated.

# November 6, 2001 Memorandum to Alberto Gonzales, "Legality of the Use of Military Commissions To Try Terrorists" (signed by Patrick F. Philbin). Not yet repudiated.

# November 15, 2001 Memorandum for John Bellinger III, "Re: Authority of the President to Suspend Certain Provisions of the ABM Treaty" (signed by John C. Yoo and Robert Delahunty). Claims that Bush could suspend any provisions he wanted in the ABM Treaty with the USSR/Russia, or any other treaty, without even telling the Senate or other states-parties. Repudiated.

# December 28, 2001 Memorandum for William J. Haynes, "Re: Possible Habeas Jurisdiction Over Aliens Held in Guantanamo Bay" (signed by John C. Yoo and Patrick F. Philbin).

# January 22, 2002 Memorandum for Alberto Gonzales and William J. Haynes, "Re: Application of Treaties and Laws to al Qaeda and Taliban Detainees" (signed by Jay S. Bybee). Repudiated.

# February 7, 2002 Memorandum for Alberto Gonzales, "Re: Status of Taliban Forces Under Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention of 1949" (signed by Jay S. Bybee).

# February 8, 2002 Memorandum ("OLC 62") for William J. Haynes, "Re: (Classified Matter)", by John C. Yoo. Described in court declaration as "prepared in response to a request for OLC views regarding the legality of certain hypothetical activities". Repudiated.

# February 26, 2002 Memorandum for William J. Haynes, "Re: Potential Legal Constraints Applicable to Interrogations of Persons Captured by U.S. Armed Forces in Afghanistan" (signed by Jay S. Bybee).

# March 13, 2002 Memorandum for William J. Haynes, "Re: The President’s Power as Commander in Chief to transfer captured terrorists to the control and custody of foreign nations" (signed by Jay S. Bybee). "We conclude that as Commander in Chief and Chief Executive, the President has the plenary constitutional power to detain and transfer prisoners captured in war. We also conclude that neither the GPW (Third Geneva Convention) nor the Torture Convention restrict the President's legal authority to transfer prisoners captured in the Afghanistan conflict to third countries. Although the GPW places conditions on the transfer of POWs, neither al-Qaeda nor Taliban prisoners are legally entitled to POW status, and hence there are no GPW conditions placed on their transfer. While the Torture Convention arguably might govern transfer of these prisoners, it does not apply extraterritorially." Repudiated.

# April 8, 2002 Memorandum for Daniel J. Bryant, "Re: Swift Justice Authorization Act" (signed by Patrick F. Philbin). Claims that proposed legislation governing military tribunals impermissibly encroaches on the President's alleged powers as 'Commander in Chief'. Repudiated.

# June 8, 2002 Memorandum for the Attorney General, "Determination of Enemy Belligerency and Military Detention" (signed by Jay S. Bybee). Concludes that the US military has the legal authority to detain US citizen Jose Padilla as a prisoner captured during an international armed conflict. Not yet repudiated.

# June 27, 2002 Memorandum for Daniel J. Bryant, "Re: Applicability of 18 U.S.C. 4001(a) to Military Detention of United States Citizen" (signed by John C. Yoo). Claims that statute flatly saying "No citizen shall be imprisoned or otherwise detained by the United States except pursuant to an Act of Congress" does not, and constitutionally could not, interfere with Bush's claimed authority to detain Jose Padilla as 'Commander in Chief'. Repudiated.

# August 1, 2002 Memorandum for Alberto R. Gonzales, "Re: Standards of Conduct for Interrogation Under 18 U.S.C. 2340-2340A" (signed by Jay S. Bybee) (the Bybee memo). (Link includes Aug. 1, 2002 cover letter summarizing memo.) Repudiated.

# October 11, 2002 Memorandum ("OLC 129"), 9pp, concerning the legality of certain communications intelligence activities.[28][31]

# March 14, 2003 Memorandum for William J. Haynes II, "Re: Military Interrogation of Alien Unlawful Combatants Held Outside the United States" (signed by John C. Yoo). Parts of this memorandum are preparation for a criminal defense for hypothetical U.S. government defendants against hypothetical charges of crimes of torture and crimes against humanity. Repudiated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo

Fanta46's photo
Wed 05/06/09 10:15 PM
drinker drinker

Havaman's photo
Wed 05/06/09 10:52 PM



it doesn't make sense to me...if they committed a crime...why not prosecute?


That is an easy question to answer....they used to prosecute some of the good ol big boys...just to pardon them later...now they know its a waste of taxpayer money they can shove in thier pockets instead...so why even prosecute?? LOL.. ITS A BIG FRIIGGIN JOKE that most people think...its so great thier goin after these bad guys....YEAH RIGHT... as if they will ever really get what they deserve. I for one am pretty sick of it all.


Well if they dont then America will fall!


Exactly my point....they dont and they arent.....and if by chance they do...its a show for the american people...six months later...they pardon them...so...all in all..they dont...and america...is falling

Lynann's photo
Thu 05/07/09 01:00 AM
Give this some thought please.

So...I have an assignment.

John (our client) is accused of DUI. These are the known facts. John was found standing in the vicinity of an auto that hit a school bus. There were no witnesses. However the prosecution is fairly sure John drove the car that hit the bus killing six kindergartners.

My assignment...gather known facts, check the authenticity of those facts, come up with possible scenarios and then research. Statutes, case law and other sources both primary and secondary along with expert opinions.

We are defending John.

I come up with possible scenarios and quote sources of law and other opinions that are or could be factors in our situation and then assess our chances of successfully defending our client.


Someone in the prosecutors office does the same thing.

So, if I locate case law or opinions supportive of my clients position along with any other pertinent information and write a legal memo advising my employer that we may have precedent on our side have I committed a crime?


Sojourning_Soul's photo
Thu 05/07/09 06:18 AM
Edited by Sojourning_Soul on Thu 05/07/09 06:40 AM

Give this some thought please.

So...I have an assignment.

John (our client) is accused of DUI. These are the known facts. John was found standing in the vicinity of an auto that hit a school bus. There were no witnesses. However the prosecution is fairly sure John drove the car that hit the bus killing six kindergartners.

My assignment...gather known facts, check the authenticity of those facts, come up with possible scenarios and then research. Statutes, case law and other sources both primary and secondary along with expert opinions.

We are defending John.

I come up with possible scenarios and quote sources of law and other opinions that are or could be factors in our situation and then assess our chances of successfully defending our client.


Someone in the prosecutors office does the same thing.

So, if I locate case law or opinions supportive of my clients position along with any other pertinent information and write a legal memo advising my employer that we may have precedent on our side have I committed a crime?




Wrong is wrong no matter what "spin" you put on it. Everything says torture is unjust and illegal by even the vagest translation.

My counterpoint on "this" issue (torture memos) would be that 9 "enlisted personel" have already been charged, dishonorably discharged, imprisioned, lost their benefits, had their lives ruined, and shown as contemptable to the public by the same people BHO is now protecting and not prosecuting....

If they say their actions were wrong, and they were only "following orders", then those who wrote the orders and those who sanctioned them for use, should definately be prosecuted and at a much greater level! They sanctioned, implemented and are the direct cause of this torture and death they allowed the 9 enlisted personnel to be condemned and sacrificed for!

And we are told "not to look behind us" (yeah, we might see the knife in the back coming if we do!). Obama was a Senator, voting for a sanction makes you guilty "before" the fact, an accomplice, doesn't it?

I rest my case!

Fanta46's photo
Thu 05/07/09 09:37 AM


Wrong is wrong no matter what "spin" you put on it. Everything says torture is unjust and illegal by even the vagest translation.

My counterpoint on "this" issue (torture memos) would be that 9 "enlisted personel" have already been charged, dishonorably discharged, imprisioned, lost their benefits, had their lives ruined, and shown as contemptable to the public by the same people BHO is now protecting and not prosecuting....

If they say their actions were wrong, and they were only "following orders", then those who wrote the orders and those who sanctioned them for use, should definately be prosecuted and at a much greater level! They sanctioned, implemented and are the direct cause of this torture and death they allowed the 9 enlisted personnel to be condemned and sacrificed for!

And we are told "not to look behind us" (yeah, we might see the knife in the back coming if we do!). Obama was a Senator, voting for a sanction makes you guilty "before" the fact, an accomplice, doesn't it?

I rest my case!


Obama knew nothing about the torture memos befor becoming President.
No one did except a select few. When info leaked out about the torture, that The Bush Admin "Elite" had Authorized, Bush denied it and refused to release the truth. Once again hiding behind his executive priviledge defense.

yellowrose10's photo
Thu 05/07/09 09:42 AM
The recommendations come after an Obama administration decision last month not to prosecute CIA interrogators who followed advice outlined in the memos.



that is what still bothers me. why wouldn't he prosecute them? whether or not BHO knew before he became president...he knows now

Fanta46's photo
Thu 05/07/09 09:54 AM
Edited by Fanta46 on Thu 05/07/09 09:56 AM

The recommendations come after an Obama administration decision last month not to prosecute CIA interrogators who followed advice outlined in the memos.



that is what still bothers me. why wouldn't he prosecute them? whether or not BHO knew before he became president...he knows now


I've answered this question for you at least a dozen times.
Instead of asking the same question over and over, why dont you ask your representatives.
Obama isnt the AG, he's the President, and if he had not informed America with this transparency of Gov., the same people who seek to make excuses for this criminal act, would still be denying it!

Just like they did when their Messiah Bush was still President and lying about it!

And prosecution may still happen. I know many who are active concerned citizens and like me they are demanding their representatives prosecute.

Lynann's photo
Thu 05/07/09 10:00 AM
The ultimate responsibility is held by the Commander in Chief who solicited the legal opinions on upon which he justified and ordered that torture be used.

To criminalize the giving of legal advice would send us back to the dark ages.

Yes, torture is wrong and indeed some individuals along the way did in fact say that despite the legal advice given them and the orders of their superiors they would not torture.

Let's be clear here. The man who is responsible for authorizing torture is Geo. Bush and it is he who should be held legally and morally responsible.


Fanta46's photo
Thu 05/07/09 10:21 AM

The ultimate responsibility is held by the Commander in Chief who solicited the legal opinions on upon which he justified and ordered that torture be used.

To criminalize the giving of legal advice would send us back to the dark ages.

Yes, torture is wrong and indeed some individuals along the way did in fact say that despite the legal advice given them and the orders of their superiors they would not torture.

Let's be clear here. The man who is responsible for authorizing torture is Geo. Bush and it is he who should be held legally and morally responsible.




drinker drinker

yellowrose10's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:08 AM
no fanta...i get what you are saying. i just wonder why BHO and his administration have said they won't want to prosecute. whether they have control over it or not....they can at least say they think they should be

yellowrose10's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:08 AM
brb

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:16 AM
Edited by Sojourning_Soul on Thu 05/07/09 11:32 AM
Executive priviledge, legal manipulation, who knew or didn't know.... we need just one to actually have something to fear (like life imprisonment) and being the cowards that they truely are, they will bring down the rest..... without torture.

Regardless of Obama or Holder, if the "people" speak out, they will have to listen. The will of the people rules, tho government would like us to think they do!

They prosecuted 9 soldiers for "inhumane treatment" (following orders we now know existed), told us how bad their actions were on national TV, disgraced them, dishonorably discharged them, jailed them, ruined their lives, and we let them. Granted, they were not innocents.

Fair is fair! Now we have the proof the blame goes MUCH higher (which we always knew). The actions of the 9 we allowed them to condemn for following their orders (simply enlisted personnel, for the most part observers), is apparently more grievous and important than the real culprits (the CIA), the drafters (the lawyers) and the masters (the Bush White House), or so we are to believe.

I don't think so! Justice for ALL! We are told nobody is above the law! Apparently, the government has a list of people and entities that are. I don't remember approving that list....do you?

They are the ones who started the prosecutions at the bottom, not us, now we need to demand it be taken to the top! That is where the injustice started! It does no good to cut off the serpents tail, the head still lives!

Previous 1