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Topic: Who You Calling Socialist?
Fanta46's photo
Sat 03/07/09 12:00 AM
Good Post Iam.drinker

no photo
Sat 03/07/09 12:04 AM

Good Post Iam.drinker
drinker Thanks Bro,,but YOU the MAN here,wink,,I just try to let others SEE and HEAR through my eyes and ears,,,wink,loldrinker
I HATE POLITICS,,,,lolsad frustrated :wink: drinker :smile:

Fanta46's photo
Sat 03/07/09 12:15 AM
Edited by Fanta46 on Sat 03/07/09 12:16 AM


Good Post Iam.drinker
drinker Thanks Bro,,but YOU the MAN here,wink,,I just try to let others SEE and HEAR through my eyes and ears,,,wink,loldrinker
I HATE POLITICS,,,,lolsad frustrated :wink: drinker :smile:


Hey,
You have hard-core, over the road experience with reality.

You have seen every corner of this country.
We have seen more than just our home towns..

davidben1's photo
Sat 03/07/09 05:22 PM
the saddest sight can be the knowing self interest for just one, or some, above all destroyed all civilizations in time's past...

if self does not embrace all that encroach upon it's space, it limit itself to being removed from it's own space...

the world has grown, and to not include all as one, would be the gravest mistake of any intelligent thinking wise spieces...

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 03/07/09 05:48 PM



huh Whats wrong with socialism anyway?huh

bigsmile Its obvious that the bourgeois are exploiting the proletarians.bigsmile

flowerforyou I doubt that most of you have even read what Marx said .laugh


Historically socialism doesn't work and always leads to an oligarchy (small group of elites dictating).

If we want to know what to NOT do we need to look a Roman history. Rome, i believe, introduced the first republic. That's what the U.S. was founded on. (Actually it is a democratic republic.)

This is because democracy is a mob rule.

And a ruling body becomes corrupt.

That is why everything is balanced.

Freedom is so often preached because our country was supposed to have as little government involvement as possible. No one was supposed to be told to do anything aside from respecting each others rights.

Anyway, back to Rome...

Supposedly the first Republic became corrupt as predicted. They started passing laws in the interest of businesses. This start to put economical pressure on the poor and middle class. Their solution was social programs. You know, welfare, healthcare, etc.

Anyway, this made the middle class shrinkand shrink fast. When the middle class shrank, they weren't able to afford these systems anymore, unless they created more money, which they did. This led to runaway inflation whichmade everything unaffordable for the poor and eventually people starved. This led to riots and uprising.

The end result was the Ceasars ruling.

Maybe that's what we need. Maybe people have become so incapable they cannot take care of themselves anymore. Maybe we are so unvirtuous we are incapable of freedom... I hope not. I hope it hasn't come to that point.

Anyway, the problem with socialism is that there is no private property. Everything is government owned, and 51% of the population decides what to do with this property. Also, chances for advancement financially are very limited. It's a tried and failed method.

The problem with socialism and us, is the simple fact that it will only benefit the big businesses that are causing many of our problems. National Healthcare will make the pharmacuetical companies filthy rich (more so) because instead of investigating their influence on the FDA, we decide to fund a government program giving them muchbigger pockets to pick.


Before resorting to another course of action, like starting more programs we can't afford, perhaps we should look at our problem, and find a diagnosis before starting a treatment.

Maybe my study of medicine is skewing my perception of reality. Normally a patient will have a problem, usually pain related. We look at the problem, then trace it, the best we can, back to the source so we may diagnose it. Until a proper diagnosis is given, we cannot assume a treatment will work.

Starting a government program would be just like treating a patient with pain medication without giving a diagnosis.

There must be some reason we cannot afford healthcare. Why not? Is it because insurance companies are no longer non-profit and they are screwing people over? Is it because illegal immigrants are flooding the system, getting treatment and not paying? Is it because the big pharmacuetical companies are influencing the FDA to make noninvasive, cheap treatments illegal so people have to buydrugs with side affects that require treatment from other drugs?

We need to ask more questions before coming up with solutions...


You are not considering all levels of the possible reasons, one not considered here is the fact that true capitalism is cruel and inhumane. There is no consideration for those unable to reach the capitalistic dream of making more money than you can possibly spend. Those individuals cannot pay what a capitalistic society doctors want to get for their services so they can have the great capitalistic dream of having more money than they can spend.

Capitalism is great in doses. It is not great to those who do not reach the brass ring. Because the cost of living in a truly capitalistic society will be high.

The pharmecutical companies have reached the brass ring in the truly capitalistic society at every level. They are monsters. They are not regulated well and they can pretty much buy whatever they need to get around the regulation there is.

Laying blame on a certain percentage of the society is not accurate at all. I have already explained that the stats out there are not accurate. They include all indigent people in this country in the stats and pass them off as illegal stats for health care. Indigents include all Americans that cannot pay for their health care but end up at the hospital for whatever reason. Considering the population of this country there are far more indigent American's receiving care than illegals. It is a hatemongering tool they use to fire peoples hatred. It is not accurate.


Ok, i've been reading up on some things. For starters, capitalism exists no matter what form of government you have. The question is how much control you give the government over capitalism. Should the government dictate who makes the profits or should the people?

In a true, capitalistic system, meaning a free market, the consumers, or the people, actually decide directly who gets their money.

Capitalism is only true in a free market system. It seems that many, many economists agree, that big business gains more from the infiltrating a government that has control of the market. It is much easier for competition to build itself to compete with any monopolies that might exist if the market is unrestricted.

That aside, my only suggestion is that we figure out why healthcare is so high. Fanta you say they've looked into it, what did they discover is are the CAUSES for this mess? Why can't we pay for healthcare?

This is where i visit other societies and what NOT to do. You see, Rome fell under very similar circumstances.

According to Roman-empire.net, Rome first became too big to govern effectively. When they reached this point the armies stopped taking over territories. Next step was the expansion of government and programs linked to this government. Basically without increasing the taxable population fast enough by taking territories, they could collect enough taxes to support the government. This, compiled by the simple fact that almost all government jobs don't produce capital, which is essential to an economy, it started to collapse. The only ones that could be taxed were the farmers producing the capital. Too much burden was placed on them and many left as a result.

There were other factors of course, the final one being barbarians that raided after they caught wind that rome couldn't afford an army.


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