Appealing to the concept of Satan doesn't answer the question at all really. It just opens up a whole new can of worms.

1. Why did God create such an evil entity as Satan?

2. Why did God not kill Satan for his disobedience and rebellion of God. After all, God's favorite moto is, "The wages of sin is death!" and sin is nothing more than disobedience of God.

3. Why would God turn Satan loose on humanity?

4. Like you say, according to the book of Job Satan can't do anything without God's permission anyway. So if God is giving Satan permission to do evil things then God is condoning those actions. Satan is reduced to nothing other than a VERY OBEDIENT hit man of God!

The story makes absolutely no sense at all.

Moreover, one question that bothered me as a child was the whole deal with Satan in the first place.

The question that always ran through my mind was whether or not humanity would have fallen from grace on their own if they hadn't been coerced and lied to by a demon!

It doesn't seem like a fair test.

Besides, the Bible doesn't suggest that it was God's plan to TEST humanity. The story actually makes it out like humanity failed God's expectation and totally SURPRISED God!

But that flies in the face of God supposedly being all-wise and all-knowing. If a truly supreme being had inspired the words in the Bible he or she would have made it perfectly clear that this was going to be a test from the get go.

This idea that all men are sinners and have fallen from the grace of God is truly nothing more than a very underhanded brainwashing scheme written by men who want to make everyone feel guilty.

There's no better way to oppress people than to make them feel guilty. Especially if you're the spiritual leader and only THROUGH YOU can they obtain grace!

Modern people today (especially the Protestants) will say, "Oh no, you don't obtain grace through the church, but throught Jesus!"

But that's only because they got tired of the church and kicked it aside and just stole Jesus from the Church because they couldn't get over the brainwashed idea that they needed to be saved. So they decided to just kick the church aside and take the savior with them.

But the truth of the matter is that it was all a farce to begin with. There never was any jealous angry God, and Jesus doesn't lust to become the king of kings and lord of lords.

That was never his goal. That came from the brainwashing scheme that if you don't surrender to the Chruch now you'll be confessing that the Chruch was right later, on your knees!

The whole religion was never anything more than an extremely arrogant attempt of man to play God.

No truly divine being could be as scewed up as the Bible demands. Like you say, even the Bible has Satan asking God's permission to screw over poeple and God gives his permission!

So Satan is reduced to nothing more than a polite obedient altar boy who only does precisely what God gives him permission to do.

Some WAR!

How could God be at war with someone who has to ask him for permission for every move he makes?

The story is necessarily bogus.

It can't possibly be true.

What truly amazes me is how many people support this outrageous story in the face of these crystal clear absurdities.

The story makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And when confronted with that people just state cliche's that they got from the Bible!

"Oh God works in mysterious ways"

"We can't understand God's wisdom"

Blah, blah, blah.

Those are nothing more than the lame excuses that come straight from the brainwashing book itself!

The authors denounced any attempt to question "God" and they claim that their words came from "God". But they were outright LIARS. Or suffering from delusions of their own!

Just look at how many people today will swear up and down that they KNOW the Bible is the word of God. Yet they weren't inspired to write it! Clearly they don't know any such thing, they just want it to be true for some strange reason. Perhaps they can't handle the thought of atheism and they see the Bible as being the ONLY ulternative to hopelessness.

In truth, I'd much rather that atheism were true than the BIble.

Fortunately other possiblities exist and are, in fact, even more LIKELY.

If there is a spiritual nature to our existence it's most likely to be found in the pantheistic picture. That makes far more sense than the idea of an egotistical jealous God who is raising humans like a crop to be harvested as 'worshipers' to serve his will.

Why would an all-powerful God need 'servants'?

There's an oxymoron right there!

Especially why would he need such pathetic servants as humans?

This would suggest that God is just as hard-up for love and attention as any human. In fact, his jealous nature implies that he's no different from a human at all. His lust to be the king of kings and lord of lords is precisely the kind of ego-trip that humans lust for.

Just look at the size of the universe!

I'm supposed to believe that humans are the BEST that God could do?

That's religulous!

We were created by a evil god for slave labor to find gold as of other valuable material. Once the god saw that there wasn't enough gold to find on this planet for their purpose to save a dying planet called Nibirus, he wanted to kill us all and end his creation.

Instead the half brother of this particular god influenced him to not kill us and just leave the planet and so they left us stranded.

Over the many centuries we began to learn to write, speak more efficiently, and envisioned the gods our ancestory's once talked about to put on parchment or draw in caves. Statues where created and more history was told to try to remember how we became as a species. Of course many of the stories are distorted and exxagerated to give us the stance today of not knowing fully of how we became a people in the beginning.


So we naturally have evil emotions, greed, desire for more, and so forth.

We humans though have developed and learned on our own to see what evil can do and have discovered other emotions that can contradict evil acts to live good lives. Although we haven't perfected it we do both good and bad things in our lifetimes. Some more then others.

In attempt to save human life we created stories of different gods that have done good things to preserve peace and more joyful lifestyle. Jesus and Buddha are two humans who have attempted to show us a different way of life.

This story is fiction for most people, yet there are truly some who believe this to be true.

It is the story of an alien race that had created us for one purpose. Slave labor.

Later they left us never thinking that we could one day be more advanced then primitive caveman (adam and eve).


Is it true this story? For 99% no, but for 1% who believe in aliens yes and find it a possibility.


So in the end we are a evil creation that has learned on our own to try to eliminate bad habits or intentions from ourselves to live good lives. It is a everlearning experience as we speak for we as a human have not perfected it yet and we are doing it on our own without any help from a god unless we use our imagination to help guide us in the process.

Religious people often argue that God allows evil to exist because he gave us 'FREE WILL'.

But that's truly a lame arguement.

First off, God's law is that the wages of sin is death. So God should have no problem at all giving any evil person a heart attack as soon as they begin to embark on an evil act. He has no obligation to allow them to continue to sin repeatedly.

Secondly, what constitutes evil?

Many people who complain about the world being evil include things like disease, and natural disasters. Where does free will come into play with those things?

Moreover, if you're child is swinging on a swing and the branch the swing is hanging on breaks off the tree and falls on your child and kills the child, was that 'evil'?

However, if some villian come by and blows your child off the swing with a shotgun, then you'd clearly label that act evil.

Basically the same result from two different acts. One caused by "free will" the other caused by pure accident.

If there really was an intervening God, why didn't he hold the branch up until the child was clear. Or have the branch fall when no one is under it.

Clearly, there are humongous problems with this idea of an intervening all powerful God that cannot be explained way by appealing to the idea that he must respect people's 'free will'.

The Free Will argument is totally lame and doesn't answer a thing when it comes to the question of why there is 'evil' in the world.

The bottom line is that there is no such thing as 'evil'. We just label anything that we find to be unpleasant as 'evil'.

Finally, if we define 'evil' as being only the purposeful intent to harm another being (not considering animals eating each other for food), then only humans are capable of evil.

But in those cases as supposedly all-knowing God would know what's going through the mind of an evil person. Why allow a serial killer to commit muder countless times? Why not turn them into a pillar of salt after the first offense?

Of better yet, turn them into a pillar of salt just as they are preparing to commit the first act. After all, if the killer knows that he's going to go through with the act, then supposedly so does God!

How could the killer know something more than God?

So if an intervening God truly exists than no crimes that harm any victims would ever occur.

The argument that God must respect 'free will' is a bogus arguments, because it's also supposedly his law that the wages of sin is death. So his law overrides free will. After all, according to the religion he has no problem disregarding people's free will when he casts them into hell on judgement day!

The story is lame. There is no judgmental intervening God who is attempting to rasise pets to worship him and become his eternal servants.

Who would want such a fate anyway?

I certainly wouldn't. I'd rather atheism be true than to end up being the eternal servant to a jealous egotistical God.

The biblical picture is a lose/lose situation for me. I'm not excited about either fate that it has to offer.

God needs entertainment and created it so to ensure his daily program stays interesting for this question you ask has been debated many many times before with no definite answer.

Why did god create a species that relies on eating other living things to sustain life?

Why did god,goddess,energy, life force or what have you create evolution if one could just get it right the first time?

Why do we have the ability to think of a better world of peace and harmony yet god creates us a life of uncertainities for so many?

Why must there be a death?

Why do we carry negative emotions when we could have had created a world with only positive enlightenment that only teaches us positive emotions?

and the list goes on

I would have to say if there is such a higher intelligence that did create us and did have the ability to do better if it,she, or he wanted to then the only conclusion can be is for entertainment purposes.

And as we struggle on mother earth pondering what happens to us after death, what happens to the Earth a million years later, or why such weird things happen like 6 legged human babies in India, or two headed turtles exist.

My only conclusion is for entertainment purposes, yet I must also add we as humans just don't have the compacity to know yet. Maybe in the future when scientists create even more findings to explain the many things we don't know today.

Who knows what the future has in stores for us, yet I know one thing is that whatever the reasons we have to try to make the best of our life here on mother Earth.

Some interesting responses so far. Here's one to throw the discussion off topic.

Given the responses and arguments, lets just say...for the sake of argument, that God is just like us, and is NOT all knowing, and all powerful. So who's to worship?


Don't get me wrong. I mean...if you look at the world, and all of it's detail (especially the human body), there has to be a higher power, or creator, right? And I'm not doubting that. I'm just saying, that the God I believe in would not create an elaborate soap opera and play head games with all of us.

To quote someone earlier in this thread..."puppets in a sick dark comedy".

Well lets see

we have pantheistic view - we are all forms of gods
we have mediterrenean views (Quran/Koran - Torah - Bible)
we have greek mythology view (Zeus)
we have norse mythology view (Odin)
we have Pagan view (to many to mention)
we have Wicca view (to many to mention)
we have Egyptian mythology view (Ra/Re -Set)
we have Draconian view (white dragon goddess)
we have Scientology view
we have Mormon view
we have Lutheran view
we have Catholic View
we have Atheist view
we have "I don't give a rat's ass view"
we have Hindu view
we have Buddhist view
we have Taoist view
we have the great Wanka Tanka view
we have vampire view
we have satan view
we have Jediism view

we have another 2000 views to answer your question in which each that is certainly believable by the one who practices it.

In the end

perhaps the only true "god" that we keep wondering about is nothing more

then the figmentation of our

Imagination

that desires to be entertained

at all costs

What satan is allowed to do with Adam and Eve and Job is very tell taleing.

Jude talks of Satan being the Accusser of the Brethern.

Not the unbeliever.

Jobs friends had the same arguments and questions as most people do.

How can you worship a Elohim who has deserted you?

Has to be or these things would not of come upon you.

Satan hardly messes with anyone on earth. The fallen angels might but satan does not.

So the Devil made me do it is indeed Bogus.

Satan goes after the few chosen ones on earth and they were only chosen by thier strong will to find Yahweh.

Only him will they follow. These apperently are at most but probally are less than 144,000 on the planet.

Very small number. This is who Satan is going after.

Yahweh allows it because it strengthens thier faith.

Matt 5:10-12
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
NKJV


Here we see Satan. Most of the time he works through close friends or family. To get Yahweh's chosen to fall to cuss Yahweh. To claim he is nobody.

Just like on here.

You are fullfilling prophecy.. Strengthing my faith.

Because those small few are not in the lime light as of yet.

like the scriptures say men will not teach men but The Spirit of Truth will teach men.

The Holy Spirit. He will teach them just like the Apostles and Disciples who wrote down letters for us to learn from.

Which that is mainly what the NT is.

But we are not hidden. People want to hide us. Because they refuse to listen to what the scriptures do say.

They want to be g-d just like you all say. Thats the nail on the head.

The ministers do not want thier congregation to know anything more than they want them to.

They want the blind sheep to fall into the ditch.

But we are to be like Job who lived thier lives with faith and assurity.

But in plain view for everyone to see.


Matt 5:13-17

"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

NKJV

Thier is Job who Satan can not touch not so much as Yahweh is protecting them.

They are protecting themselves with the Helmet of Righteousness the WORD.

The 2 edged Sword that noone can come against.


It's about assurity that every father gives his child.

The child knows and relies on it.

Dad ABBA will protect me like a little child who when they are up high in the air and see thier Father will jump to them knowing without doubt thier father will catch them.

And all of you know that you would do your very best to catch that child even if it may mean death to you.

That is the assurity the believer has if his/her heart is Pure for Yahweh. Not trying to please man and his ways.

Because the religion you speak of is trying to please man.

Thats why they will not listen to what you all can see so often because they have put on the Race Horse blinders that is taking them to a Track of Destruction that Satans ministers are in the forefront.

But Satan he looks to get Yahweh's chosen hated by the people as we see throughout the scriptures people hate the word.

They hate it pure and simple. It can not be i am not going to do it and You are a Dam fool if you try. Right?

That is what it comes down to that Satan hates and gets the whole world to agree on. JC as I have said is Satan because he has decieved the whole world.

Matt 5:17-20

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
NKJV
Blessings of Hope and Shalom...Miles

Well Miles if this is in your heart to believe

that satan and angels, swords, and prophets going after each other to teach morales of how to live then so be it. All the best to your personal realistic viewpoints.

By the way as I skim through your posts you always write "thier" instead of "their".

It is a common mistake don't worry.

All the best.