I'm pretty good at stirring up controversey, so here's another. I would
say that the "war" in Iraq is moral, and ethical. I even agree with ppl
who say that Bush lied, and that the "WMDs" never existed. And if
there's any imorality in this mess, its Bush's lie.

Onto my point.

From the mid 80s on, Iraq waged war with each of its neighbors.
Repeatedly. The neighbors brokered a deal with the US to provide
millitary protection incase Iraq tried again. We signed a deal. In the
early 90s Iraq tried it again, this time in Kuwait, and we responded. We
were asked to topple Saddam by the neighboring countries. Bush the First
thought Saddam had "learned his lesson".

During the "Desert Storm I" war, Iraq launched missiles into Israel -
remember that? And they launched 39 missiles into Saudi Arabia. Iraq
posed a real threat, a continuing threat, to each of its neighbors, and
we had signed a deal to keep Iraq locked down for the neigborhood (this
was the Clinton "Containment Policy"). The Containment Policy was
failing, and expensive to maintain.

Bush II inherited this failing policy, and thought it would be best to
conclude his father's efforts. How convient when 9/11 happened. How
convienent when the forged-Uranium Papers were "leaked". We had/have
agreement, and the request, of the neighboring countries to finish the
job started in the early 90s.

What if we did not invade? Saddam would die eventually right? Look whats
happened since his death. 10s of thousands of CIVILLIANS are being
killed by their fellow CIVILLIAN citizens. How many American troops?
3000.

Fact of the matter is: US Troops are keeping the lid on outright
slaughter of Sunni vs Shia in Iraq.

The sectarian fighting ISNT targeting US troops - look how little have
been killed - 3000 in 4 years. Most casualties fell in the initial
invasion - as would be expected.

Without our troops there, the Sunnis would outright slaughter the Shia,
on the order of 100,000s ! Since we stepped into this mess, we have the
moral obligation to remain there to protect the 100,000s of civillians
at risk.

Is 3000 american soldiers worth 500,000 civillians? Need you ask? Yes.
Our soldiers are holding back a potential genocide that would make
Stalin blush.

I despise Bush - he lied, lies, and will continue to do so. But, for
different reasons, I accept that our presence in Iraq, to protect the
civillians, is morally required.

-Mike

begs the question..what about the will of the Iraqi's...Do they want us
there?..
I suspect not....

We can argue all night about what "we" want...what about "them"...

mike just want to clearify a couple of things,,
bush (1) didnt feel he had learnt his lesson- it was a agreement made
with the arab counsel that we made that said all we would do would be to
force sadaam out of kuwait, which is what we did, schwarcoff had the
entire iraqi army on the run and in perfect position with what he later
would call the left hook to dessimate the little boogers, he was told to
stand down, remembering the brokered deal. oh he deal by the way was,
you can kick him out of kuwait and we (arab counsel) wont engage in war
with you(americans)...

US Troops arent keeping a tight lid on anything in regards to sunni shia
deaths, we dont go out there and count their bodies, besides their
families rush out and grab the bodies before anyone could anyway, you
know its their religious beliefs to have them in the ground the same day
before night fall right, the body counts of the iraqis are the
responsiblity of the iraqi's - thats the bottom line...

less than half of the dead fell in the initial invasion...

it would be the sunni who would get slaughtered by the shiites not the
other way around, it was the sunni that were in power with sadaam, now
that he is gone, the iraqi population that is over 60% shiite are having
their revenge and trying to prop up a shiite ran style or form of
government- much like the one in iran...

i wouldnt say that we are holding back a potential genocide- i dont
think on will come until we pull out, we are however still engaged for
the most part with al qeada, and continue to kill them daily.

bush is no more a liar than you are mike- easy to take shots at the
figure head.



still love your post

doc

duvinci-

the will of the iraqi people as i have witnessed was hell yes, america
thank you, kissed my feet, fed me dinner gave me tea, in every house i
went near. never heard anything bad, except for the chuckles about the
allah akbar crowd.

suspect all you wish.


doc

Doc:

Thanks for the clarification. I do stand by my statement that Bush is a
liar based on the WMD issue. I would have supported him if he had said
outright "...there is unfinished business in Iraq, containment is
failing, and there is a real threat to the security of the region".

mike-

wmd, dont believe the myth that they werent found.

they were, by the warehouse full.

but,,, they werent really brought up THAT much because they were
degraded and really non viable. it was brought up in the news a couple
of times, but i think they are as complicite as the dems on this, who
can go around saying whatever lie they want and not be called on them
because of an attitude by the whitehouse that says, we're not going into
the gutter to speak on your level.

but hey its america, believe what you want


doc

This crap has been going down in the middle east long before the 1980's
montanamike. Please! WMD were indeed found but of course so many want to
ignore that FACT. All the middle east has tried to do is put us smak dab
in the middle of THEIR HOLY WAR. Well guess what MM? We are there. We
are at WAR with Iraq. We can fight them THERE or....we can fight them
right HERE in America. Thanks but lets leave it THERE hey.

hey there bb, I agree with you except for one thing. We are not at war
with Iraq. And I ma not picking differences here as far as war was
declared over. We are in iraq (yes fighting and what not)trying to help
the Iraq nationals to rebuild their government and to get them (the
government) to stand on their own and defend themselves (capably defend
themselves).
we are not fighting the iraq citizens butthe different fascist groups in
the area that does not want Iraq to be under its own control etc.