Seems like we're hell bent on a millitary operation vs Iran. Seems like
Bush is going to pull it off with enough time to help the Elections.
Thats the pessimistic, likely-case scenario.

But, is there some merit to strking Iran?

I say yes. For one, Iran has a stated national policy for the
destruction of Israel. Putting aside the Arab/Jew issue, any country
that has its national goal to be the genocidal destruction of another
country is a real problem.

Secondly, Iran probably ISNT building nuke weapons. But so what? They've
gone from IAEA compliance of 300 nuke-refineries to 3000 refineries. The
300 refineries was permitted under the agreement that THEY signed. With
300 refineries, it would take 10yrs+ to refine enough explosive content.
Thats assuming they were going to persue "civillian only" uses, and this
plan would give them 1 to 2yrs worth of "power-grade" Uranium for
generating electrical power. Seems reasonable.

With 3000 refineries, the production time falls from 10yrs to about 1yr
to make enough material for a bomb. Assuming its for civillian purposes,
that would give enough power-grade Uranium for 50+ years.

Iran has announced plans to scale the 3000 refineries to 30,000 over the
next 5 years. Whats the purpose?


Now, lets compare some timelines. In 1945 the first A-bomb was detonated
in New Mexico. From start to finish, using 13,000 refineries of 1940s
design, it took only 36 months to build enough weapons-grade Uranium for
THREE working bombs. That included all the necessary efforts to figure
out all the things necessary to complete the task [after all, it was a
first time run!]

We don't know how many nuclear plants
Iran has for sure, so why quote statistics?

Here's a link:

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070417/63796133.html

I was going by Iran's own claims, and those "semi-confirmed" by the UN.
Its not the "sites" that matter, its the number of centrifuges in
operation.

There is little doubt that Iran is pursuing development of a nuclear
weapon. North Korea already has one, and I am sure that other countries
are considering the development of their own. The decision on whether
we should go to war with them to stop them should only be made after
much deliberation. Perhaps it is time for the United Nations for once
in their miserable career to step up to the plate and take decisive
action instead of maintaining their status as a debating society for
Third World Countries.

The more petty dictatorships that posses a nuke there are, the less
stable the world becomes. I know that there are those that will bash me
because the U.S. is the only nation ever to use a nuke to date, but that
has already been discussed in another thread. I believe it is only a
matter of time before either a terrorist organization or one of the less
than stable dictatorships uses one.

When the major powers, US, USSR, France, England, were the only ones to
posses these weapons each knew that there was no way to win a war using
them. With some of these fanatical dictatorships they don't care if
they win. Their only aim is to cause as much death and destruction as
possible.

I may not see it in my lifetime, but in my children or grandchildren's
lifetime I firmly belive there will be a nuclear war that if it does not
put an end to mankind, it will at least set us back to the stoneage.
For that to be averted, all nations would have to put petty politics and
national egos aside and do what is right for mankind and I don't see
that happening real soon.

north korea has nukes now...we should take them out..

oh yeah..no oil...my bad...

duvinci

who has backed north korea for the last 60 years? china, how big is the
chinese army, oil or not, when deciding who your gonna fight make damn
sure that you dont walk out with more than a bruised ego. chinese army
is over one million men strong by the way- you want a war to end all
wars well there you go- oh my bad you were being a smarty pants.


iran- dont give to hoots about them, if they decide to build a bomb or
not, it wont be the US to taste the first nuclear fall out, might be
someone like india(has the bomb) or pakistan(has the bomb) or isreal
(has the bomb and will use it). In any case where ever they use it when
ever they use it it will be a one time deal, then the power of whatever
god you pray to wont be able to stop the destruction of the shiite ran
country. but hey thats my opinion maybe im wrong and the world will give
itself one big hug and we can all sing derka derka jihad songs all nite
long by the camp fire next to the cave.

good on ya doc ill join ya in a bit of a sing song around a camp fire id
rather give a brother and sister a big hugg than shoot em.

running around the world picking and choosing who we are
gonna nuke or go to war with is ludicrous...pure madness...
we ignore madmen like Mogambe (sp) in africa or any number
of despots engaged in extermination...but we will attack
someone on the notion that "they may at some time in the
future " have the means to do us harm...
I have had a lifetime wondering what my best friend of 12 yrs
may have been ...if he had survived the marines in 1970...

the fearmongering has done it's work..thats a fact..

and army doc...a little respect for my service....USMC 70 - 73...SGT..
I have looked at things from both sides

you think we're not in africa...
i think any group that is going around wiping out entire villages, or
ethnisities should feel the wrah personally.

ive seen both sides as well, respect the core, respect the rank, dont
respect the opinion, i'll buy you a beer if your ever around nashville.
army 1990-98, and again 2003-present.

but thats my two cents


doc

And in the end when mankind is sent home to our parents, there will be a
note from the teacher that says, "Does not play well with the other
children".

dont need to play well


some are sheep, some are shepherds

some are wolves trying to get the sheep from the shepherd

some are the men at the market paying the shephed for the sheep

some are the cook working for the man at the market

some are sitting at the table eating the sheep payed by the man at the
market to shoot the wolf who attack the sheep

some are standing in the shadows, watching the men that the man at the
market pays

and some stand at the window looking inside, b1tching about how cold it
is and wishing that they had a bite of sheep to eat.


who am I, who are you, who are we in the world?
the wolf? the sheep? the shepherd? what?

devinci1952 i really agree with you at least you,re not brain washed by
a bunch of bull sh1t

brain washing tirades keep on going....

amazing that if someone doesnt agree with others then they are
considered brain washed.

i guess in the crazy way we are all brain washed, you put the toilet
seat down right. hopefully wash your hands after words, drive the speed
limit, pay your taxes, you are conditioned to your enviroment.

my enviroment is one of bullets and blood, its my job its what i do, it
does not however define me, i am opinionated just as you are and will
defend my positions with the best/worst of them.

intolerance of others, my we havent really learned anything have we.





doc

peace, im out

Um, what happenend to b1tching about Iran??

ha ha

screw iran, they suck. and by that im not talking about the students in
tehran, im talking about the imams and clergy who think its all the
shiite way or death to you, screw'em, hope they catch syphilis from one
another, women are for breeding men are for fun mentality that they walk
around with, all the while preaching about lobbing off heads.

is that better mike?

The damn shame of it is that I was all psyched to visit Iran. I tried to
get a visa to visit in the 90s - I had heard so much about Tehran being
"the Paris of the middle-east". I even enlisted my boss' boss who was
from Tehran to help me out. He gave me a stern warning "You dont want to
goto Iran."

All in all, I dont see any room in the world for a country that says
they will "destroy" another country solely because of religion. Its
foolish to allow that country the ability/likelyhood to construct
weapons to acheive that mass-destruction, even if they dont currently
"appear" to be making them.

Sorry, I love all you guys.

OK - business face. davinci, you click on a lot of levels with many of
my opinions. THEN doc comes along and somewhere inside that tough
"trained" mind are some words, I can't deny.

A recent conversation with Doc has given me an understanding as to why
this is.

First davinci, you and I are product of the same time, historically
speaking. What we have lived, he knows only as history, but, here's
the thing davinci, what doc is living, we can only view through the
history that the press publishes?

Somewhat ironic that all the experiences you and I and others, involved
with the turmoils of the 50's thru 70's, had that we would be considered
no more than 'history' in the eyes of those who are 'experiencing' the
2000's.

Sorry about the interruption of your topic Mike call it a commercial
break!

CARRY ON!

I think I've just reached the point where I have seen enuf war in this
life...and enuf pointless death...what always puzzles me is how
we can justify killing spiritually...I dont go to church...or claim any
religion as mine...but I still struggle with this feeling that we are
participating in something that can only be defined as "evil"...

I guess you heard that Putin was over here several days back, and he does not like this threatening of Iran and supposedly said that if the US attacks IRAN, he would consider it the same as if US attacked RUSSIA. WHAT that means to me is that, if US is stupid enough to attack Iran , this country would or could be a pile of ruble from sea to shining sea. In case you had not heard, we supposedly have not had any spy satellites in space over other countries in 15 years or more because Russia shot them all down, with their cosmospheres (manned space stations)(weapons)(electromagnetic pulse weapons) Why do you suppose we use those drones? Is that the best we can do.?? If they shot first, they could set off ,all our missiles in the silos,before they left the ground, and these warmongers call Russia a toothless, tiger!! I also heard that Russia paid off its national debt, and is not broke any more. I also hear that Russia has evidence for our trials, if we need more evidence. Russia has been trying to reason with the warmongers just as WE THE PEOPLE have tried. We should stop the Warmongers, because Russia will walk over all of us just to get to them ,if they have to. It is in all our best interests to stop the war, And keep them away from Iran.If Israel attacks Iran, let Israel go down, they have no business over there. I don't know personally, but I heard tell, that Israel took the lead on the planes to Baghdad .I bet somebody knows for sure who did?? Hey, did you ever wonder what those space shuddles are really up to??