It was alleged in a related thread that "some states" allow transfer or purchase of firearms to persons convicted of Felony or to the mentally disabled. I want to make certain that people reading and/or participating in discussion on these forums that such an assertion is absolutely FALSE.

The Federal Firearms Statutes are exceedingly long but I have, for the benefit of readers of the Mingle2 forums, included the following exerpt of the Gun Control Act of 1968, Sec. 922, titled "Unlawful Acts" in order to clarify this issue.



Link:

http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#GCA

That and 50 bucks will buy you one one any corner...If felonies want a gun its pretty simple to buy one. He!! check any classifieds for your make and model....

PS I have my licence...

PS the kid who shot up VA Tech purchased his firearms because the state by it's own admission wasn't complying with federal statute.

States with no background checks abound. Only 15 states, including California, require background checks for sales at gun shows.

“It defies common sense that a loophole in federal law lets unlicensed dealers sell firearms at gun shows without running a background check on the buyer,” Lautenberg said. “Our legislation would require background checks for every gun purchased at every gun show across America. Without this change in the law, felons, fugitives and severely mentally ill people will continue to be able to buy guns – no questions asked.”

Even the most casual purchaser of guns knows there is more than one way to get around the federal statute.

I venture to guess, given the vast knowledge of all things the poster who started this thread has, that he too knows this too.

Even a casual search of the internet will reveal that gun shows are an easy end run around federal and (depending on the state)state statute.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By Dave Forster
The Virginian-Pilot
© January 14, 2009

RICHMOND

Legislation that would require criminal background checks on private sales at gun shows failed to win the endorsement Tuesday of the Virginia State Crime Commission.

The research and advisory body considered a law like the bill that failed to make it out of a Senate committee last year. The vote Tuesday to recommend it ended in a 6-6 tie.

Instead, the commission voted 7-5 to endorse a bill to make gun-show promoters pay to have a State Police trooper at their shows. The troopers would watch for illegal sales.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let's look at Virginia. A place that arguably should be aware of the consequences of allowing mentally ill people to purchase guns.

Virginia the commonwealth that failed to properly enforce existing gun laws allowing a mentally ill young man to purchase several guns and then randomly kill people follows that by then failing to institute background checks.

Pray tell, does the Commonwealth of Virginia now employ psychic police officers capable of determining who might be mentally ill or have a criminal backgrounds at gun shows while they "watch for illegal gun sales"?

You and I along with many others know that without background checks which to be done properly or at all require time. To assert that all sales of firearms in all states, commonwealths, protectorates etc. are in compliance with federal statute is an out right lie.

Governments that allow gun sales at gun shows (in comes the argument about what sales are private sales) know full well that these sales are designed to bypass background checks are playing a dangerous game.

One that, in the VA Tech case, cost innocent people their lives.

I await your reply.

Additional changes in statutes regarding the sales of firearms have followed the Gun Control Act of 1968 as well.

I'd suggest that you follow up that research a tad.

(Disclaimer: If this post rambles I apologize in advance. The dentist heavily medicated me today.)

I never said that there aren't way around the law.

I whole-heartedly support closing the gun show loophole. Many dealers at gunshows still run background checks on all their customers, despite the loophole. I've seen it take place.

The fact remains that it's federal law that convicted felons, domestic abusers, the mentally deficient, and the dishonorably discharged are not allowed to have a firearm legally transferred to their possesion.

I'm not all-knowing about all things but you asserted that "some states" permit such sales to take place, a blatant mis-statement of fact.

What happened ad Va Tech was as tragedy. People died needlessly in that disarmed citizen, excuse me, "gun free" zone.

Yeah, well I can go down the street and if I know the right door to knock on, I can buy a bag of weed, too. That doesn't make it legal..

btw, where are you buying any kind of gun for $50??

I wouldn't trust firing such a POS, unless my life absolutely depended on it..

The assertion, mine...that some states allow sales of firearms to persons with mental health issues and criminal backgrounds was not "FALSE"

Calling my assertion false and posting the federal statute knowing full well that the majority of states do not fully comply with it in regards to all sales within their borders and doing so in an attempt to "educated" readers of this forum was in my opinion dishonest at best.

you're entitled to your opinion, certainly. The way you made it sound was that there were not laws on the books prohibiting sales to unsavory types.

You made it sound as if Joe Felon could walk into any 'ol gun shop straight from the penetentiary and purchase an AK-47 and a thousand rounds of ammo.

Federal law says what federal law says. Certainly there are, and probably always be, ways around it. I'm not arguing that.

Long before this conversation here got started, I've been in favor of closing the gun show loophole. Keeping gangbangers and wife-beaters from buying guns is of extreme importance to me.

I just wanted to make clear that there are laws in place that do, in fact, prohibit the sale of firearms to individuals meeting certain descriptions.

Those laws are meaningless under present circumstances.

You know it and I know it.

You say I "made it sound"

So my post asserting, correctly, that sales made in states routinely are made that do not comply with federal statute was not merely a matter of opinion but was a fact.

In your "attempt to educate" your fellow posters and to discredit my assertion you, knowingly it seems since you claim to be well acquainted with the gun show loopholes, posted the statute and did not mention you knowledge of the frequently used gun show loophole that indeed enables persons who have criminal or mental health histories purchase guns.

My assertion that these sales take place and that individuals not legally qualified under federal statue to purchase guns is "TRUE" and that sir is not a matter of opinion but of fact.

HR 2640 mandates improvements in state reporting to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) in order to halt gun purchases by criminals, those declared mentally ill, and other people prohibited from possessing firearms.

What more do you want? I know, don't bother answering.

Closing of the loophole that allows sales to those individuals via gun show sales.

How anyone can construe sales of firearms at a gun sale opened to the general public as a private sale is....well we all know it is nothing more than an end run around federal statute and is clearly not a private sale.

HR 96 Gun Show Loophole Closing Act of 2007.

Its been sitting in a democrat controlled subcommittee since Feb 2007.

Why don't you call your congressman and tell them to move on it.

actually gun shows in oklahoma do background checks before you buy i dont know how it is in other states

Part of Missouri's gun laws:

A concealed carry endorsement cannot be issued to any person who is or has been:

* Convicted of a felony, including domestic violence.

* Convicted of one or more misdemeanor offenses involving crimes of violence within a five year period, including domestic violence.

* Convicted of more than one misdemeanor DUI offense within the last five years.

* A fugitive from justice or currently charged with a felony.

* Dishonorably discharged form the U.S. armed forces.

* In a habitually drugged or intoxicated condition.

* Adjudicated mentally incompetent at the time of application, or five years prior to the application, or has not been committed to a mental institution.

* A respondent of a full valid order of protection, which is still in effect.

* Engaged in a pattern of behavior that leads the sheriff reasonably to believe the applicant would be a danger to himself or others.

I found it interesting that they put a 5 yr. time frame on two of them.

wow

I GOT A GUN FOR 50 BUCKS BUT BOUGHT IT USED

http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/a/gunlaws_mo.htm

I'm guessing that this could be a good site for Missouri.

It said this too:

This prohibition does not apply to possession in a person’s dwelling, while hunting or while traveling in a continuous journey through the state.

CALIFORNIA HAS A VERY STRICT CONCEALS WEAPON RULE BOOK YOU REALLY HAVE TO SHOW THAT YOU OR YOUR IMMIDIATE FAMIY OR IN DANGER

you get what you pay for. I hope that POS doesn't blow up in your hand if you're fool enough to fire it.

**********************

Here's the deal about gunshows. yes, it's possible to purchase a firearm in certain states without having an NICS background check done. Most often when this happens it's between private individuals who have either rented a boothspace or who just attend the show and have a gun or guns with them while they're attending.

Federal law requires persons engaged in the business of selling firesarms to hold an FFL or Federal Firearms License. Such dealers are required to catalog every gun they buy, sell or of which they transfer possesion. Failure to do so is a federal offense and will result in that license being revoked. Private individuals who occasionally buy and sell firearms into and out of their own private collections are not subject to this requirement.

The so-called loophole has to do with person-to-person private transactions which do not fall under federal jurisdiction. These types of transactions do occur at gunshows but it's legal to sell or buy a gun between private individuals. The government cannot and never will be able to regulate the sale of firearms (or anything else for that matter) between private individuals.

That's not to say that Federal statutes do not still apply in that it is an unlawful act to knowingly sell or transfer possesion of a firearm to a person fitting the description in sec 922 quoted in the OP.

That means that it's a felony to loan your gun to a friend, nieghbor, son, daughter, uncle, nephew etc whom you know to be a spousal abuser, convicted felon, mental defective, dishonorably discharged from the military, etc.

Studies I have read indicate that only between 2 and 5% guns used in the commission of crimes were purchased at guns shows.

Most often criminals illegally come into possesion of a firearm or firearm through straw-purchases, wherein a person legally permitted to purchase a firearm does so illegaly with the intent of selling or giving the gun to a person who is not legally permitted to purchase a firearm for one reason or another.

Straw purchases are by far a bigger problem than gunshow purchases..

Gun laws vary drastically from state to state. If in doubt about buying or selling a firearm, contact the local AG with questions you have.


citations:

^ a b "Oversight of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives Part 2: Gun Show Enforcement" (PDF). Hearings before the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security, 109th Congress, 2d Session, February 28, 2006. http://www.judiciary.house.gov/media/pdfs/bouchard022806.pdf.
^ a b c d e f g h i j k "The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives' Investigative Operations at Gun Shows" (PDF). US Department of Justice. http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e0707/final.pdf.
^ a b c "Gun Shows: Brady Checks and Crime Gun Traces" (PDF). Washington, DC: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/treas_pub/gun_show.pdf.
^ "The Oregon Gun Show Controversy.". AP. 10-12-2000. http://asianweek.com/2000_10_12/news2b_guncontroloregon.html.
^ "Greens target gun show.". The Journal Times. 11-08-2004. http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2004/11/08/local/iq_3203014.txt.
^ Richey, Warren (2007-11-21). "U.S. Supreme Court takes up gun-rights case.". The Christian Science Monitor. http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1121/p25s09-usju.html.
^ "Mexico has gripe of its own about U.S. Gun smugglers.". AP. 5-03-1997. http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/050497/mexico.htm.
^ ""Americans for Gun Safety:" Shamelessly Manipulating Acts Of War To Promote Political Agenda.". NRA-ILA. 2001-10-26. http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/Releases.aspx?ID=1115.
^ Boston T. Party (Kenneth W. Royce) (1998). Boston on Guns & Courage. Javelin Press. pp. 3:15.
^ "Survey of Inmates in State and Federal Correctional Facilities, 1997". DoJ. http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/cgi-bin/SDA/NACJD/hsda?nacjd+02598-0001.
^ "Federal Firearm Offenders, 1992-98" (PDF). Bureau of Justice Statistics. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ffo98.pdf.
^ "Waiting Periods". http://www.lcav.org/states/florida.asp#WaitingPeriods. Retrieved on 2008-01-02.
^ "Firearms - Curios/Relics". ATF Online. http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/relics/. Retrieved on 2008-08-23.
^ "Pursuing honor students more than gangsters". The Arizona Republic. http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0916montini0916.html.
^ "Gun show myths/Polling, petitioning on background checks say much". The Gazette (Colorado Springs). http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4191/is_20000310/ai_n9968790.
^ "The Loophole". The Richmond Times-Dispatch. http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/opinion.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2007-11-16-0153.html.
^ "Gun show sales not big source of problems". Richmond Times-Dispatch (Richmond, Virginia). 2009-01-24. "Gun shows, then, are not the real issue — except to those who recoil viscerally at the sight of large numbers of firearms in one place."
^ "U.S. Guns Behind Cartel Killings in Mexico". Manuel Roig-Franzia, The Washington Post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/28/AR2007102801654.html.
^ http://www.cnsnews.com/PDF/2006/atf-richmond-letter.pdf

well then you got a good deal. most guns bought or sold for $50 are usually held together with duct tape and bailing wire.