I agree forbes it was, I am sure, a frantic frenzy......



For this thread to even start is sad........

Ahh the innocence of youth. Folks peoplehave been "throwing
themselves into the breach" for eternity. People have made valiant
charges, heroic stands & endured horrific conditions, all for some
TRUELY national/personal idea. I grew up hearing the personal
experiences of WW II, Korea, wars this whole country supported. I have
me 5 people, who had the Tattoo' # on their forearm, from the
concentration camps. I lived thru the civil rights things of the 60,
Martin Luther King; 1 man who died for an idea. There is a marker in a
field, in Pa I think, where a plane load of people took a stand/made a
charge/said "Let's roll." Till you take a stand/make a choice, that
make cost you YOUR LIFE, I don't think you can understand. "I" think it
takes a little age & experience to reach that point. The professor gave
his life for his students. I don't think most there had learned that
forever a few have always take stands to protect the many/the weak.

God Bless our troops past/present/future & all who "go into the breech."
They do it for us.

Tulip, I think it is up to us to teach this to the yunger generation.
Terrible post, I disagree. I think some good ideas can be exchanged.

I said sad! old sage...


and these are children and we were not there.


They were not in a Korean war, they were in class studying!


And we will never know how many tried to help ,
and we have been told of heros there young as well as one
elderly,professor.


And yes this is a sad post, speculation gets, us where?



Especially this post?????????

we always hear the term "sheeple" used to describe our society these
days..
meaning I guess that we just follow & mill around with no will of our
own
waiting for someone to tell us what to do...It makes sense in a society
that
maybe has become severely apathetic to do nothing at times that require
action....

How high do you want me to jump?
Want me to sit against the wall..ok...

individuality is not our forte anymore...we are automatons...
we do what we're told ...

You relate this to a bank robbery....

That's comparing apples to oranges. In a bank robbery, the aggressors
are there for the banks money...not a body count. As much you find my
posting saddening, I find yours the same.

There is a person who sole person is to kill as many people as possible
and it's ok to sit idle and let that happen? Your telling me if someone
broke into your house and started shooting your friends you wouldn't do
a thing? These were classmates...friends.

For those that keep saying how hard it must be to charge someone
spraying bullets, it just shows you really don't understand the
situation. First off....the aggressor was some 5' 5" skinny kid, not
exactly hard to tackle. About bullets flying everywhere? The guy had 2
semi-automatic handguns...not Rambo style machine guns. He bought his
first gun 2 months prior to all this which tells me he isn't exactly a
super solider and his re-loads are going to take time. I'm not sure how
many rounds were fired in total but it's a fact he had to re-load at
least once...I'm guessing it was more like 3-4 times.

You guys have this Hollywood image in your head that bullets were flying
in some 360 circle around the dude and that he was some commando. IT
couldn't be further from the truth.

I won't go as far as the OP and call them cowards. I sympathize with
everyone on that campus that day....it doesn't mean I agree with their
actions however.

Truly I think we did fail as a society...We failed the victims of the
shootings and we failed this young man!!!!!

I say that not because of anything that could have been done on the day
of the shootings...Because aside from not locking the students down
until the killer was found after the first shootings.....I don't believe
he could have been stopped on that day!!!!

BUT there were 2 years worth of severe warning signs known by many from
the police to teachers to various people at the university....that this
man was indeed very disturbed!!!!! They knew all this since 2005 and yet
nothing was done to protect this man from himself or to protect the
students at the university from him!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is the sad part and where we all failed and hopefuly we can learn
from this tragedy!!!!!!!!!!!

DrakSpartan, whoa, I wasn't truly comparing this to a bank robbery. I
was more so giving an example of how there is extreme danger with a bank
robbery, and they do threaten to kill people a lot of the times, and
people have died from bank robberies, and people often contemplate on
tackling the person during that bank robbery.

I didn't say that I find your post sad. Goodness, you definitely mean
another poster there.

However, yes, I stated that it is NOT new that people won't charge at
someone spraying bullets, and this guy was spraying bullets, there is no
Hollywood image in my head about what was going on there. I mean, I am
quite familar with guns, and the people there said that this kid seemed
like a pro at reloading and handling his guns. That surely caused even
more fear with everyone. From reports, it sounds like the guy was in the
hall, where nobody was to tackle him anyway, and in the other
classrooms...students were already fleeing (as they should have been),
not contemplating a plan to "Wait, let's turn around and go back and
face the shooter". Furthermore, with the bank robbery exmaple, I was
more so talking about how people are held hostage. Sure, in a bank
robbety, more people may be bound to survive than die, but the threat of
death is still highly there, and the people go through the same fear as
these young people went through with this shooter, except elevated for
these young people. With a mass murder...the people are held hostage
there while the murderer tries to kill them or does kill them, just like
that Amish Masscare.

I respect your thoughts. But mine are still skeptical of people running
at someone with a gun while that person is shooting. A person has to
compose a plan as a group to strike when you get a good chance to, if
you're truly going to strike as a group. To just say "Oh, let's all
charge at him while he's shooting. It doesn't matter if a few, or all of
us die" when the person and the ones with him or her have a chance to
just save each other by leaving out the windows, and alerting others to
do the same is unrealistic. Sure, no extensive plan needs to be composed
when you decide to tackle the person on your own, but one person having
tackled this guy...it sounds like there wasn't a good chance to do so,
without him or her having died on the spot, just as was already
mentioned by another poster that it was heard that someone did try that.

Anyway, I've mainly already stated my thoughts on this subject.

~Forbes~

Forbes,

Thanks for the well thought out reply. I can see a lot of your points
and of course it all depends on the situation. There is a fine line
between doing something courageous and doing something stupid. Most of
the time I would say the right thing to do is keep ones head down, I
think the exception is when you have suicide killers or people who have
already harmed someone.

Obviously I wasn't insinuating someone should of ran straight at the
kid, there are plenty of ways to better resolve the situation. Like
standing on the side of the door and hitting him with a chair once he
entered or any other number of smart ways.

I can't blame anyone for being scared, and it pains me to think about
what the families are going through. It's that pain for the families
that makes me mad no one stopped him sooner. Then again, you can't
expect everyone to have a soldier's mindset.

Hope you have a great weekend.

Back at you, DarkSpartan.

It was great reading what you had to say.

Mike, I might agree with your criticism of our culture, but in this
specific circumstance I think you are wrong - I've gone to classes at
tech, and the way the lecture halls are designed (with doors leading
into the front of the room, student seating *well back* from the doors,
chairs raised one level above the next) the gunman had such a tremendous
strategic advantage it would have been pure, useless idiocy for anyone
(except maybe the lecturer to attempt) to rush him. The lecturer might
be close enough to do something, but anyone else would be guaranteed to
be mowed down.

You can charge a nearby gunman, but when he is too far away, its just
useless. I think its likely one or two people -did- try to charge the
gunman, and got blown away so quickly it destroyed anyone elses nerve.

The sad thing is that it did happen and all the wouldve couldves cant
change that.