True, the conceptual framework is what it is regardless of the labels assigned to it. (i.e. the territory is what it is, regardless of what map symbols are used to represent it.) And that is largely my point. The only means we have of grasping each other’s conceptual framework is via semantics. And it appears to me that we are using the same words to try to describe different concepts.

I hold two different concepts in my mind. I label one of them “choice” and the other one “decision”. The difference between the two concepts is significant in my mind. The difficulty is in choosing the words that will communicate that difference to you. So far I have failed in that respect. Or maybe I actually have communicated the two different concepts and you simply do not agree that they are different. I’m not sure which. But regardless of which is the case, I don’t see a way around the apparent misunderstanding.


If I were to state how I think perception and the unconscious relate, I would say that perceptions can trigger unconscious reactions, and those unconscious reactions are not voluntary – i.e. there is no “volition” involved in an unconscious reaction.

Also, if one becomes aware that one has reacted unconsciously, then the knowledge of that reaction can be considered information/data that could be used in an evaluation resulting in a conscious decision/choice.

As best I can tell, that agrees with what you are saying about “distinguishing between pure involuntary response and that of conscious contemplation”

I think the best way to see the difference is in an example.

Okay I am looking at two choices in a pair of shoes. I like them both. I don't know what I will do, buy them both or choose one of them.

Right there I have two choices. 1. Buy them both. 2. Choose to buy only one pair.

At this point I must "decide" to make a choice between the two choices above. (Buy them both or Choose one.) The alternative also involves choices. 1. Do nothing, and just keep on walking. 2.Decide to choose.

So I must decide first. Let's say I decide to decide between the two options and I choose option # 2. Decide to choose between buying them or not. This is an important step. It is when I decide to purchase something. $$$

At this point my two choices are 1. Buy them both 2. OR Choose only one pair.

I once again have to decide to choose between the two choices above. Lets say I decide to choose only one pair.

Now I am faced with the bottom line ..the choice. 1. The Black pair with the ankle strap and 3" heals or 2. The black pair of 2" healed pumps. One is practical and comfortable the other one is sexy and hot.

I decide for work, to buy the practical pair because I know I probably will not wear the other pair for more than a few painful hours.

Such dilema's us women have in shopping for shoes.

Conclusion: You have to decide to choose first. Then choose.

If you decide not to decide, it is called procrastination and it is a conscious choice.

If you decide not to choose, its a decision. (you either buy both pair or neither pair)

If you choose not to decide, its also a decision but it is an unconscious one. (you either buy both pair or neither pair)

In either case you have made a conscious or unconscious choice.


I don't think that cleared anything up because now I'm confused.

Decisions, decisions....

if the human memory is included in any decision, it has input?

the human memory then be CONTROLLING ALL THINGS ALL HUMANS DO?

no matter how large or small the INPUT, ANY input is SOME input, so SHAPE WHAT IS THOUGHT AND ACTED OUT?

if one teaspoon of suger be added into a recipe, IT MUST BE SEEN AS EQUAL, or the mind reside in bias, seeing some things as having LARGE INFLUENCE, and others as small INFLUENCE?

which create a state of only accessing PARTIAL DATA?

the same as to say, if EACH HUMAN BE A CIRCLE, ALL things in essence effect the circle equally, or the mind be distracted, then making a conclusion from only partial data?

the mind is CONTINUOUSLY RECORDING tons of data, and the conscious mind ALONE being used cannot handle this much data that is being as repressed, and after sometime, begin to shut down, this being called depression and other such things.....

bascially, the mind is only FULL, just as a cup full of water, and needs emptied out, to "recharge itself", BUT, since depression is seen as a negative, and then treated as an illness, this condition is only "patched up", the same as tending to a leaf, and not the root of the plant?

but back to the memory.....

so then ALL things entered into the memory, are DECIDING WHAT EACH IS CREATING OR BEING the same as the NOW?

CAN ONE "NOT KNOW" THEIR OWN MEMOMRY?

if the memory is LEFT WITH A "NEGATIVE" ELECTRICAL CHARGE UPON ITSELF, then self has "no power" to leave any previous state, only react to it, so as to try to COUNTER BALANCE IT WITH WHAT IT BELIEVE WILL CREATE BETTER, for itself or others?

this then being the same as "one spinning off from perfect true center of self, creating a "side street", by only trying to "regain balance" by tilting to the other side?

perhaps i am painting some picture good enough to begin to see some essence of what is proposed?

all of this is then ONLY REACTIONAIRY RESPONSE?

this state can NEVER be left by the mind then TRYING TO WILL ITSELF TO A PARTICULAR ACTION?

want....

want....

want....

A POISON WORD in todays society, as if one say they are doing what they WANT, this means one is taking no responsilbility, it a slacker, is a less studious being, is a less motivated being, is a less desirable?

anger, malice, hate, greed, deciet, lies, rude, unkind, and any other words that bring "negative" to the mind, telling self it is NOT GOOD, show the mind HATE WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE?

so THIS MAKE SELF actually hate self?

ok, many would dispute they hate self, BUT IF ONE DOES NOT SEE ANGER AS GOOD, then this alone show self does not like self?

self is "willing" itself to be "a definition heard of what is good"?

all such emotions seen as NEGATIVE, will PERPETUATE THIS BOUNCING BACK AND FORTH OF THE BUBBLE, the same as self as a top, trying to right itself, by willing itself to the oppsite side?

not missed that the earth itself is in this tilted position?

later, now being hard to believe, BUT MAN ITSELF CAN RIGHT THE EARTH BACK TO STRAIGHT UP, and was the destiny of a final era?

this then creating PERFECT BALANCE OF ALL SEASONS?

no more winter or summer?

ok, but back to the other for now.....

so self is first convicned it's WANT BE IMPURE, and it's memory is telling itself constantly SELF SCREWED UP?

so this self voice, a PERFECT correcting self, comes to be hated, and is taught to not be heeded by COMMANDMENTS OF GOOD, so then ignored, and after any length of time, becomes almost as none existent?

WANT be the most natural thing any human have, WITHOUT BIAS BEING ALLOWED TO DIRECT ITSELF?

as if the mind is a bubble, the bubble in the middle of a level, and if self "will self" to one side, IT WILL GO TO THE OPPOSITE?

why?

the brain is fluid?

the body is fluid?

likened unto water from many peoples in past days?

getting back to WANT AS GOOD, does not do what the mind thinks it will?

the mind is scared to death of it's own wants?

so then wants skyrocket out of proportion, becoming even self destructive, which all know the many things in this direction.....

thinking self will self destruct, which in reality, could only be thought if one thought itself first NOT GOOD, so this showing DISLIKE FOR SELF, and NOTHING ON THE OUTSIDE CAN BE LIKED, LESS SELF LIKE ITSELF?

but self constantly try to convince itself it like itself, by the constant repeating of how it is DOING GOOD?

ask if one would ever kill another?

the repsonse most recieved is "NO, that is wrong"?

the corect answer would be, sure, if and when i WANT TO?

then self has been first decieved, and is not looking at it's want, BUT ONLY A DEFINITION OF RIGHT AND WRONG, this TOTALLY OBSCURING ITSELF FROM ITSELF?

this no doubt is the natural inclination when born, and this is being perpetuated by all things spoken as "teaching" from "wise" in environment?

but the mind, IF IT BELIEVE ITSELF NOT GOOD, shall then FIGHT to be, and thus slide to the opposite side of the bubble the more, BECAUSE IT IS DOUBTING ITSELF?

but all knowledge IS BUILT ON SELF DOUBT, so this instruct self to actually worsen it's own condition, never even knowing what the hell is happening?

there is only one way to exist such condition, which be only to prove to self it is doing what it want at all times, NEVER DOING SOMETHING BECAUSE OF SOME PARTICULAR THING IT WISHES IN RESPONSE, but totally and simply for ITSELF?

not that doing for another is "bad", but after sometime, self cannot see what it is doing for "approval" or for "wished respsonse" from others, so to get "back" to pure self, IT IS CRITICAL TO ONLY DO WHAT SELF WISH?

it does not take time to realize just how much is being done for the sake of manipulation, which be not "bad", but will make the "bubble" in time go crazy back and forth?

such things reek of purtorted selfishness to some, BUT IF THE MIND BELIEVE IT IS SELFISH, then this belief IN ITSELF will slide SELF AGAIN to try to NOT be, thus creating the bubble slide the more, some calling it self serving, BUT SELF IS GOOD, AND IN JUST A FEW WEEKS TIME, can begin to see just how much it actually wishes to do for others, without anything in return anyhow.....

so all this about the "bubble" of self bouncing back and forth.......

but for a good reason......

is the conscious mind controlled by the subconscious?

it is proposed for now that it is, and that the conscious mind CANNOT FIND IT'S OWN ANSWERS?

it is as bouncing back and forth accessing it's own actions TOO MUCH TO FIND THEM?

which does not allow the conscious and subconscious to BALANCE OUT?

yes, two dials of self, the conscious and subconscious, BUT THESE COME TO "SPIN" OUT OF SYNC?

by the "bubble' effect of the conscious mind?

to say the conscious mind is spinning at one rate of speed, the speed of human pace, and the subconscious AT A HIGHER SPEED, or A HIGHER FREQUENCY, and the sub mind HAS ALWAYS BEEN SPEEDING UP AS HUMAN TIME PROGRESSED?

why the kids are deemed "hyper", purtorted to need meds.....

they are HEARING and USE more data from the subconscious, as the CONSCIOUS MIND, WHICH BE ONLY THE HUMAN MEMORY, has not been "developed" by HUMAN SIGHT AND LIVING AS MUCH YET?

thus, for the CONSCIOUS MIND TO "OPEN" TO IT'S SUBCONSCIOUS, THE TWO SPEEDS OF BOTH THE CONSCIOUS AND SUBCONSCIOUS, MUST BE IN SYNC?

the same as the rings around saturn, the mind spinning around self?

just as the earth is spinning?

but it is NOT FELT?

this process of syncing the mind, CANNOT HAPPEN LESS THE CONSCIOUS MIND SLOW DOWN FIRST, even as if to STOP, the constant WILLING of a particular state, to stop the bubble from bouncing "back and forth"?

then after just a few weeks, the brain is equalized, as balanced, and can begin to HEAR what it's subconsious is telling itself, AND IT IS PROPOSED, THAT NO SUBCONSCIOUS MIND IS "BAD", and that all such notions of things done that are less desireable ONLY come by using the conscious or memory alone to "will" the mind, and this after time, create many things least desired?

indeed many words spoken from many ancients in time till now verifing SOME GREATER TRUTH OR DATA FLOW FORTH FROM THE INNER SELF, OR CALLED SUB MIND, for easier explaining for now?

the subconscious be the NATURAL PERFECT GUIDE, THAT WILL NOT ALLOW SELF TO COME INTO HARM, OR ENTER INTO ANY SITUATION WITHOUT TELLING ALL THINGS IN ADVANCE?

science indeed has shown that the human spieces is only using about 5-10% of it's ability this far?

mind science center saying "the other 90% being available for physic ability"?

are not humans as creating all things itself is making, but the word creating is not used in any teaching of anything human?

but indeed, who else is doing all the creating?

it is proposed that the conscious mind is as cut off from such data, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE CONDITION EXPLAINED, and thus is not "thinking" of itself properly, and this alone being the cause of many simply things spun way out of proportion....

this SUB mind be the perfect guide of self that teach HOW ONE IS CREATING ALL ITSELF DOES NOT LIKE?

are not all humans creating all things with it's thougths first, then this spurring definitions, then this spurring actions?

but to "RESIST THE THOUGHTS", as is taught to be done, is to teach to WAR AGAINST SELF, AND NOT TRUST SELF, and nothing can trust anything else, unless it FIRST TRUST ITSELF?

the bouncing bubble must be stopped for anything that wish to have more data about itself?

the same as to say, THE DNA of the mind is stored in the sub mind, and the "conscious mind" can never find it?

so how to "slow" the mind to sync itself?

accept every thought of self?

to resist, as time crawls forward, will have greater and greater INSTANT NEGATIVE RESULTS?

unbalanced behavior, manic, fearful, explosive, rage and all such things will INCREASE AS LONG AS THIS CONDITION IS NOT CORRECTED BY SELF?

yes, as time or the earth is moving forward at one speed, and if self the "conscious memory based mind" is NOT AT THE SAME SPEED, then the emotion, which is being as controlled by ALL OUTSIDE MAGNETISM of the earth, will create each day, more disasterous results, more for the young, who are more in tune with the current speed or frequency of the earth?

when the conscious mind accept all incoming thoughts, and not ARGUE with them any longer, then the "bouncing effect" becomes as slowed, until it stop, and when it stop, the conscious mind is at the "same setting" as the sub mind, and the conscious is as disolved, the memory being cleared out, all "negative" and "positive" electrical charges that marked the brain, explained by self itself, and this state is what was once called zen, and many other things down thru time........

rantings and ideas, and NONE AS COMPLETE, as the first thing learned from the sun mind is HOW all things of the body are equal, the same as suger be no better than salt, and the mind will actually begin to learn what it is like to be ever learning, nothing ever seen as complete, as increasing awareness is not as one good and one bad, but all things leading to more knowing......

basically, to learn no more wished "constant state" of being, and that this resricts the awareness itself from being added to, and increased awareness is fear, but all fear explained?

words coming from this "sub mind", only come out without "willing" them, and efforts to change them dilute them, as this be then the consicous mind or memory trying to suite a definition of good again, which thrust back to the place described, so just take them for what they are worth, if anything.....

peace to peace......

Sky,



It would be accurate to state that a significant difference is not recognized from this vantage point. In the future though, please keep in mind that I would enjoy learning a new perspective when you find a way to articulate your thoughts on the matter in a way that necessitates a distinction.





I would concur and add that there are both, unconscious and conscious perception, involved in an overlap of unconscious content into one's current conscious experience.



I would concur.



Agreed. It is the recognition of unconscious content within one's own mind that remains the most formidable task at hand. As you stated earlier, becoming aware of it is a self-empowering and beautiful thing. The beginning of becoming whole is the recognition concerning the differences between that which one thinks ought to be and that which one chooses to be.