Topic: I'm interested to see this happen.
warmachine's photo
Tue 11/11/08 06:20 AM
Bush Spy Revelations Anticipated When Obama Is Sworn In
Monday, November 10th, 2008

By Ryan Singel |

When Barack Obama takes the oath of office on January 20, Americans won’t just get a new president; they might finally learn the full extent of George W. Bush’s warrantless domestic wiretapping.

Since the New York Times first revealed in 2005 that the NSA was eavesdropping on citizen’s overseas phone calls and e-mails, few additional details about the massive “Terrorist Surveillance Program” have emerged. That’s because the Bush Administration has stonewalled, misled and denied documents to Congress, and subpoenaed the phone records of the investigative reporters.

Now privacy advocates are hopeful that a President Obama will be more forthcoming with information. But for the quickest and most honest account of Bush’s illegal policies, they say don’t look to the incoming president. Watch instead for the hidden army of would-be whistle-blowers who’ve been waiting for Inauguration Day to open the spigot on the truth.

“I’d bet there are a lot of career employees in the intelligence agencies who’ll be glad to see Obama take the oath so they can finally speak out against all this illegal spying and get back to their real mission,” says Caroline Fredrickson, the ACLU’s Washington D.C. legislative director.

New Yorker investigative reporter Seymour Hersh already has a slew of sources waiting to spill the Bush administration’s darkest secrets, he said in an interview last month. “You cannot believe how many people have told me to call them on January 20. [They say,] ‘You wanna know about abuses and violations? Call me then.’”

So far, virtually everything we know about the NSA’s warrantless surveillance has come from whistle-blowers. Telecom executives told USA Today that they had turned over billions of phone records to the government. Former AT&T employee Mark Klein provided wiring diagrams detailing an internet-spying room in a San Francisco switching facility. And one Justice Department attorney had his house raided and his children’s computers seized as part of the FBI’s probe into who leaked the warrantless spying to the New York Times. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales even suggested the reporters could be prosecuted under antiquated treason statutes.

If new whistle-blowers do emerge, Fredrickson hopes the additional information will spur Congress to form a new Church Committee — the 1970s bipartisan committee that investigated and condemned the government’s secret spying on peace activists, Martin Luther King, Jr., and other political figures.

But even if the anticipated flood of leaks doesn’t materialize, advocates are hopeful that Obama and the Democratic Congress will eventually get around to airing out the White House closet anyway. “Obama has pledged a lot more openness,” says Kurt Opsahl of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which was the first to file a federal lawsuit over the illegal eavesdropping.

One encouraging sign for civil liberties groups is that the Center for American Progress’s president John Podesta is one of the top three heading Obama’s transition team, which will staff and set priorities for the new administration. The center was a tough and influential critic of the Bush administration’s warrantless spying.

Among the unanswered questions:

Were there quid pro quo promises made to the phone companies and internet carriers who cooperated with the secret spying? For example, were co-conspirators promised lucrative government contracts?

Did the program appropriate the CALEA wiretapping infrastructure? Under CALEA, Congress forced telecoms to build surveillance capabilities into the phone and internet network, but promised it would only be used with court orders.

What did the first version of the surveillance program sweep into its net? In March 2004, a squadron of top officials at the Justice Department, including then-Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI head Robert Mueller, threatened to resign over the illegality of the program. The program was subsequently scaled back, but nobody knows what the NSA was doing that was bad enough to horrify Ashcroft.

What was the legal rationale for the surveillance?FISA explicitly made warrantless domestic eavesdropping illegal, but the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel issued a series of memos justifying the spying anyway. The ACLU is fighting the Bush administration for access to the documents, as well as secret memos justifying torture.

“It’s difficult to see how Sen. Obama could call his administration transparent if his administration continues to suppress non-sensitive information that should have been released a long time ago,” says the ACLU’s Jameel Jaffer.

The other looming question is whether, as president, Obama will continue the warrantless spying himself. Obama voted with the majority in Congress to legalize the Bush spying program in July, but the constitutionality of the measure is yet untested. An Obama administration is less likely than Bush to devise convoluted legal end-runs around the Constitution, according to Marc Rotenberg, the head of the Electronic Privacy Information Center.

“Keep in mind that Obama is a constitutional scholar and has a deep understanding of checks and balance,” says Rotenberg. “It’s hard to imagine that an Obama administration would support … warrantless wiretapping.”

With the financial markets and the economy in deep trouble, it’s unlikely that Obama will quickly turn to the issue of warrantless wiretapping. But the EFF’s lawsuit against AT&T over the surveillance could force the new administration to pick a side quickly. In December, a federal judge in San Francisco will hold a hearing on whether the retroactive immunity granted to AT&T and other telecoms as part of the FISA Amendments Act is Constitutional. Obama voted for the act in order to legalize the spying program, but tried unsuccessfully to strip out the immunity provision.

EFF’s Opsahl hopes that if EFF prevails in December, an Obama administration might let the decision stand, clearing the way for EFF’s lawsuit to proceed.

“If we are victorious in our constitutional challenge, I would hope the Obama administration would accept that loss and move on without an appeal,” says Opsahl. “But we will have to see.”

adj4u's photo
Tue 11/11/08 06:26 AM
obama has a rare opportunity to be a honorable and great liberator of the people if he so desires

his party has enough power to clean up govt a lot

and get rid of a lot of oppressive legislative issues

luke213's photo
Tue 11/11/08 06:35 AM
you cant trust any of them to do the right thing.. republican or democrat.. this is what they want.. divide and conquer.. Its a pepsi and coke cola election and government.. in the end what do you have... COLA! We cant leave it up to anyone in government... WE AS AMERICANS SHOULD STAND AND SAY NO MORE!!!1

Josh_P_Rad88's photo
Tue 11/11/08 06:48 AM
wow.... u know i really hate Obama and it has NOTHING to with the fact that hes black, i could care less and would hate him just the same if he was whiter than McCain(if thats possible) but he does have a great chance right here to do something great

adj4u's photo
Tue 11/11/08 06:51 AM

you cant trust any of them to do the right thing.. republican or democrat.. this is what they want.. divide and conquer.. Its a pepsi and coke cola election and government.. in the end what do you have... COLA! We cant leave it up to anyone in government... WE AS AMERICANS SHOULD STAND AND SAY NO MORE!!!1


well that is probably right but i will hope it is not but only time will tell

but after aig got another big bailout

there should be something happening

there should be some kind of corruption investigation and when/if treason is proven bang they shot him down -- bang bang he hit the ground

but to get the people to do anything good luck

after all probably 2/3 of the people were against the bail out and it happened any way

they always wanna say it is chinas fault or the arabs fault or some other geographical areas fault

well no it is the federal reserve boards manipulation of the money markets fault

the govt can not run without money and who controls the govts money the federal reserve board

i hope obama and the dems at least get rid of the fed res the anti terrorist act (clinton) and the patriot act (bush)

but we will see and i am not holding my breath

adj4u's photo
Tue 11/11/08 06:53 AM
this should be his first speech on jan 20


When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavored to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands. He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world: For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighboring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

warmachine's photo
Tue 11/11/08 06:53 AM
I agree, this is an example of something that a President Obama could do to give me some faith in his administration. Another would be to open up the CoG plans developed by the Bush crowd, as well as ending the SPP/NAU.

Just gonna have to wait and see, there's still enough time left in the Bush Admin, that a drastic situation could give George the chance to enact Pdd 51, in conjuncture with other things he's done and there won't be any bickering about Obama, because Pdd 51 makes Bush a despot ruler.

luke213's photo
Tue 11/11/08 07:06 AM
The money that is going to AIG isnt the Governments money.. Its OURS!!!! So who is going to be the ones putting it back... US!!!!

adj4u's photo
Tue 11/11/08 07:15 AM

The money that is going to AIG isnt the Governments money.. Its OURS!!!! So who is going to be the ones putting it back... US!!!!


it is borrowed from the federal reserve board

the federal reserve board is a private entity

prescot bush was on the first fed res board

the govt has to pay interest on the 700 bil

that interest is profit to the fed res board

now you would think the father and grandfather of a president being on the federal reserve board would create a conflict of interest

thus a can to be opened for sure

luke213's photo
Tue 11/11/08 07:17 AM
They should just let the companies fail.. you cant fix a capitalistic problem with a socialistic plan.. i know it would be hard at first.. but our economy will fix it self.. all ways has..

adj4u's photo
Tue 11/11/08 07:20 AM
Edited by adj4u on Tue 11/11/08 07:21 AM

They should just let the companies fail.. you cant fix a capitalistic problem with a socialistic plan.. i know it would be hard at first.. but our economy will fix it self.. all ways has..


that was the thought of i bet at least 2/3 of the people

they did not bail me out when my first company went under

i just wonder how much of that interest will go into the bush family bank accounts

warmachine's photo
Tue 11/11/08 07:24 AM
Just a thought, but wasn't there a Bush deeply involved in the Savings and Loans scandals?

adj4u's photo
Tue 11/11/08 07:28 AM

Just a thought, but wasn't there a Bush deeply involved in the Savings and Loans scandals?


neil bush

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A35297-2003Dec27?language=printer

warmachine's photo
Tue 11/11/08 07:31 AM
Thats what I thought.

adj4u's photo
Tue 11/11/08 07:34 AM
a lot of articles about it i typed

saving and loan scandle and bush -- in google search

but i figure the washington post would be the best on for here


warmachine's photo
Tue 11/11/08 07:45 AM
It's funny how that last name pops up in so many evil places.

The S&L scandal-Neil Bush
Iran Contra- George H.W. Bush
9/11- Marvin Bush
9 months of Anna Nicole Coverage- Billy Bush
Hitlers fundraising-Prescott Bush
Fascist Overthrow attempt of the 30's- Prescott Bush
Operation Zapata which lead to the beginning of the bay of pigs-George H.W. Bush
Bin Ladens getting access to our markets- James Baath, who dumped that money on George W. Bush
Taliban being given star treatment in Houston- George W. Bush
The beginning of election theft being common occurances in this country- Jeb Bush.
The desecration and theft of Geronimos skull-Prescott Bush

We could just keep going, if I wanted to dig, thats just off the top of my head.

Lynann's photo
Tue 11/11/08 07:47 AM
Well the transition team has been reviewing Bush executive orders, assessing each order's scope and affect and readying impact statements regarding possible actions for months.

Remember it's a big job. Shrub wrote more signing statements than every president before him combined.

There are orders that touch many areas like scientific research, security, information, wire tapping...the list goes on.

This was an important issue for me in voting. I am encouraged to see that the review of these orders wasn't just a campaign promise by Obama and that real work and research into what to keep and what to reverse is on-going.

warmachine's photo
Tue 11/11/08 07:51 AM
While it's got the potential to be a good thing, looking them over doesn't necessarily mean overturning them. I've never heard of a President or a Government returning power, no matter how it was gained.

With a Hawk in Lib clothing like Emanuel around, I could easily see Obama keeping some of the more dangerous ones around that ensure big power.