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Topic: A Veteran Speaks Out
mnhiker's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:07 PM

by Laurence Vance at September 30, 2008 07:26 PM

Whenever I write about the military, my critics are usually people that are not in the military and have never been in the military. Most of the military people and ex-military people that write me say that what I write is true: they were duped, the military is no place for a Christian, they are ashamed that they killed for Uncle Sam, the troops are responsible for their actions, etc., etc., etc.

For example, in response to my recent article, "The Blame Game," a veteran wrote me this:

Just a quick note, I am a veteran of the Submarine force. I have to agree with you that every person is responsible for their actions, no matter what organization they are a part of. By this logic, it seems ethically wrong to fight any war. I was all set to sign on for another 6 years, go to Explosive Ordinance Explosive and go save some lives. I started reading LRC and realized that there is another option in this life, peace. I started to understand that one man can make a difference, and I decided to leave the military. There are times that I miss the friends, and fun that I passed up. I would be going up for Chief (E-7) for the first time by about now, but instead I am working, going to school and training for sport. I am glad that I was able to vote with my feet and no longer support the war machine. I am actually considering leaving the country to ensure that my productivity is no longer stolen to support war, or wall street fat cats.
Thank You

Matt




Well, I was in the Navy for 4 years, including 2 Persian Gulf tours.

I understand that when you are in the military and you are given an order, you have to carry it out.

There may be certain situations when you can refuse to obey an unlawful order, but you'd better be 100% sure of yourself, because otherwise there will be hell to pay.

It's sometime hard for people who have never served in the military to understand this.

If you don't, ask someone who's been in the military or is currently serving and they will explain it for you.

madisonman's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:08 PM
again this thread isnt about me,its about the vetrean who wanted to leave the country so he wouldnt contribute to this imorale war. I salute him myself. But as americans we all have the birthright to have an opinion.

bergeia's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:09 PM




No big deal,,, that's quite a statement. All those American lives,,No big deal. Do you remember 9/11,,that was 2 buildings and everyone wanted revenge. Everyone was an American and had their flags out. Can you imagine a whole city. We have to make our presence known and be a force the rest of the world can see. I support our troops 100 percent.
I remember 911 and also know iraq had nothing to do with it. Its criminal that our government USED the tragady of 911 to start a war in Iraq. and somehow I am the bad guylaugh


u are because you disrespect the men and women of our armed forces. i bet you laughed when kerry made his 10% comment didnt you? :) again this thread isnt about me,its about the vetrean who wanted to leave the country so he wouldnt contribute to this imorale war. I salute him myself. But as americans we all have the birthright to have an opinion.



first off its spelled immoral. second of all your birthright is bought with the lives of the true soldiers who bleed and die everyday fighting the people of the world who gain power every time you or another person tries to take us away from the battle. you salute the coward all you want. he still a coward in my book.

yet again though if your patriotism is called ot question so too then is your validity of your sources, your information, your entire reason for making the thread in the fist place. everything is about you right now brother. you made it that way.

cottonelle's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:14 PM

again this thread isnt about me,its about the vetrean who wanted to leave the country so he wouldnt contribute to this imorale war. I salute him myself. But as americans we all have the birthright to have an opinion.

you could always move to iraq since we in america are so corrupt and bad...lol

Dragoness's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:16 PM
Not supporting an illegal war and the leader who perpetrated the crime, does not mean someone has to disrespect or dishonor the military personnel.

To say all people in the region of Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.. are evil and deserve to die is prejudice, racist, etc... I would not want to be judged for say the crimes of Bush. He does not act for me or speak for me and I work hard for people of other countries to know that I am not like him.

Just as our evil people here do not make all of us evil, extremists in other countries do not make them all evil. Bush's brainwashing of this country to beleive that Saddam and bin laden were the same and interchangable was a crime. Bush's brainwashing that makes all Muslims extremists is a crime. Bush's ideal that Iraq was deserving of this evil we have perpetrated on them because of bin laden and 9/11 is a crime.

madisonman's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:17 PM





No big deal,,, that's quite a statement. All those American lives,,No big deal. Do you remember 9/11,,that was 2 buildings and everyone wanted revenge. Everyone was an American and had their flags out. Can you imagine a whole city. We have to make our presence known and be a force the rest of the world can see. I support our troops 100 percent.
I remember 911 and also know iraq had nothing to do with it. Its criminal that our government USED the tragady of 911 to start a war in Iraq. and somehow I am the bad guylaugh


u are because you disrespect the men and women of our armed forces. i bet you laughed when kerry made his 10% comment didnt you? :) again this thread isnt about me,its about the vetrean who wanted to leave the country so he wouldnt contribute to this imorale war. I salute him myself. But as americans we all have the birthright to have an opinion.



first off its spelled immoral. second of all your birthright is bought with the lives of the true soldiers who bleed and die everyday fighting the people of the world who gain power every time you or another person tries to take us away from the battle. you salute the coward all you want. he still a coward in my book.

yet again though if your patriotism is called ot question so too then is your validity of your sources, your information, your entire reason for making the thread in the fist place. everything is about you right now brother. you made it that way.
Dude scroll up and see your own spelling mistakes but I was polite enough to not point them out. So your saying everytime I use my right to free speach the terrorists win? laugh

madisonman's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:21 PM






No big deal,,, that's quite a statement. All those American lives,,No big deal. Do you remember 9/11,,that was 2 buildings and everyone wanted revenge. Everyone was an American and had their flags out. Can you imagine a whole city. We have to make our presence known and be a force the rest of the world can see. I support our troops 100 percent.
I remember 911 and also know iraq had nothing to do with it. Its criminal that our government USED the tragady of 911 to start a war in Iraq. and somehow I am the bad guylaugh


u are because you disrespect the men and women of our armed forces. i bet you laughed when kerry made his 10% comment didnt you? :) again this thread isnt about me,its about the vetrean who wanted to leave the country so he wouldnt contribute to this imorale war. I salute him myself. But as americans we all have the birthright to have an opinion.



first off its spelled immoral. second of all your birthright is bought with the lives of the true soldiers who bleed and die everyday fighting the people of the world who gain power every time you or another person tries to take us away from the battle. you salute the coward all you want. he still a coward in my book.

yet again though if your patriotism is called ot question so too then is your validity of your sources, your information, your entire reason for making the thread in the fist place. everything is about you right now brother. you made it that way.
Dude scroll up and see your own spelling mistakes but I was polite enough to not point them out. So your saying everytime I use my right to free speach the terrorists win? laugh
Oh I forgot to tell you I didnt make this thread and its spelled quistion by the way. laugh

madisonman's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:24 PM

Not supporting an illegal war and the leader who perpetrated the crime, does not mean someone has to disrespect or dishonor the military personnel.

To say all people in the region of Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.. are evil and deserve to die is prejudice, racist, etc... I would not want to be judged for say the crimes of Bush. He does not act for me or speak for me and I work hard for people of other countries to know that I am not like him.

Just as our evil people here do not make all of us evil, extremists in other countries do not make them all evil. Bush's brainwashing of this country to beleive that Saddam and bin laden were the same and interchangable was a crime. Bush's brainwashing that makes all Muslims extremists is a crime. Bush's ideal that Iraq was deserving of this evil we have perpetrated on them because of bin laden and 9/11 is a crime.
thank you flowerforyou

bergeia's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:27 PM
omfg, no. i have actually interacted with these people. when was the last time you saw a REAL muslim. no sneakers, not in wal mart. a REAL one. never. because you never had the guts to get up and enlist. so trust me, ive read the qur'an had it translated for us and been taught their culture. and dont mistake my opinion for brainwashing thats just a pathetic attempt to gain time for a comeback.

madisonman's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:29 PM

omfg, no. i have actually interacted with these people. when was the last time you saw a REAL muslim. no sneakers, not in wal mart. a REAL one. never. because you never had the guts to get up and enlist. so trust me, ive read the qur'an had it translated for us and been taught their culture. and dont mistake my opinion for brainwashing thats just a pathetic attempt to gain time for a comeback.
Did you see them from the vantage point of being and unwelcome guest in their country?

bergeia's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:30 PM


omfg, no. i have actually interacted with these people. when was the last time you saw a REAL muslim. no sneakers, not in wal mart. a REAL one. never. because you never had the guts to get up and enlist. so trust me, ive read the qur'an had it translated for us and been taught their culture. and dont mistake my opinion for brainwashing thats just a pathetic attempt to gain time for a comeback.
Did you see them from the vantage point of being and unwelcome guest in their country?



oh no we were welcomed and cheered. you see we brought food and water and handed out books educational material,etc. the iraqis loved us. it was the saudis the syrians the iranians and everyone else fomr every other country around there who didnt like us. we were turning iraq into a democracy, somthing which scares every muslim cleric the world over.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:33 PM

omfg, no. i have actually interacted with these people. when was the last time you saw a REAL muslim. no sneakers, not in wal mart. a REAL one. never. because you never had the guts to get up and enlist. so trust me, ive read the qur'an had it translated for us and been taught their culture. and dont mistake my opinion for brainwashing thats just a pathetic attempt to gain time for a comeback.


You were taught to hate and it worked. Sorry for ya.

madisonman's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:34 PM



omfg, no. i have actually interacted with these people. when was the last time you saw a REAL muslim. no sneakers, not in wal mart. a REAL one. never. because you never had the guts to get up and enlist. so trust me, ive read the qur'an had it translated for us and been taught their culture. and dont mistake my opinion for brainwashing thats just a pathetic attempt to gain time for a comeback.
Did you see them from the vantage point of being and unwelcome guest in their country?



oh no we were welcomed and cheered. you see we brought food and water and handed out books educational material,etc. the iraqis loved us. it was the saudis the syrians the iranians and everyone else fomr every other country around there who didnt like us. we were turning iraq into a democracy, somthing which scares every muslim cleric the world over.
That all sounds so nice but for some reasone it sounds like BS. I would imagine they would be happy to get drinking water since we blew up everything and were probably over joyed to get some food since well since we blew up the entire infrastruture but I seriously doubt they are happy to have us there.

bergeia's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:36 PM
lol theyre water came from a river 4000 years old. they crapped in their canals and ate what they kille dor grew since before we got there, we didnt bomb the country, we strategically took out military infrastructure. not anyhting that moved. its that kind of thinking that lets me know you just egt your info online. read a book one day. youd understand we always ebing with air raids of satellites,communications,and any targets of opportunity. not houses.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:37 PM



omfg, no. i have actually interacted with these people. when was the last time you saw a REAL muslim. no sneakers, not in wal mart. a REAL one. never. because you never had the guts to get up and enlist. so trust me, ive read the qur'an had it translated for us and been taught their culture. and dont mistake my opinion for brainwashing thats just a pathetic attempt to gain time for a comeback.
Did you see them from the vantage point of being and unwelcome guest in their country?



oh no we were welcomed and cheered. you see we brought food and water and handed out books educational material,etc. the iraqis loved us. it was the saudis the syrians the iranians and everyone else fomr every other country around there who didnt like us. we were turning iraq into a democracy, somthing which scares every muslim cleric the world over.


Considering that we bombed the hell out of them and killed them in the streets first. Yea I guess they would be glad to see someone who did not shoot first and ask questions later, right?

bergeia's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:38 PM
god which of youw ere there? which of oyu were there within 100 years of the incidents? you dont know what youre talking about! you gobble up what the media shows you and swallow it for truth on the spot. yet ive been there seen these people talked ot them held their hands. im telling you. youre WRONG> W-R-O-N-G

Dragoness's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:39 PM

lol theyre water came from a river 4000 years old. they crapped in their canals and ate what they kille dor grew since before we got there, we didnt bomb the country, we strategically took out military infrastructure. not anyhting that moved. its that kind of thinking that lets me know you just egt your info online. read a book one day. youd understand we always ebing with air raids of satellites,communications,and any targets of opportunity. not houses.


Well, at least that is the lie told to us here at home, huh?

bergeia's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:40 PM


lol theyre water came from a river 4000 years old. they crapped in their canals and ate what they kille dor grew since before we got there, we didnt bomb the country, we strategically took out military infrastructure. not anyhting that moved. its that kind of thinking that lets me know you just egt your info online. read a book one day. youd understand we always ebing with air raids of satellites,communications,and any targets of opportunity. not houses.


Well, at least that is the lie told to us here at home, huh?


wow. again speaking form your position of amazing depth and clarity. which bomber corps were you in again?

madisonman's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:41 PM

lol theyre water came from a river 4000 years old. they crapped in their canals and ate what they kille dor grew since before we got there, we didnt bomb the country, we strategically took out military infrastructure. not anyhting that moved. its that kind of thinking that lets me know you just egt your info online. read a book one day. youd understand we always ebing with air raids of satellites,communications,and any targets of opportunity. not houses.
sorry for the cut and paste but its time for a fact check ........BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- In the last six days, U.S. troops have shot at Iraqi police, journalists, a wedding party and a top Italian diplomat searching for looted antiquities. ........
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_155997.html

purposebuilt's photo
Tue 09/30/08 09:42 PM
Edited by purposebuilt on Tue 09/30/08 09:45 PM
Bergeia, I'm with ya man. Without men and women like you this country would not be what it is. Thank you and all like you for standing up for our freedom and giving people a right to disrespect you and our country if they choose like their doing on this thread. There our some of us that still believe in this country and every thing our flag stands for.