I never said doing nothing. I said living on welfare most of your life. Working a minimum wage job isn't gonna get you off welfare if you have kids. It would save money and help the economy more if the gov paid for these people to go to school and money to live on for a couple of years and then allow them to get off the system by learning a skill and getting a better paying job.

So if we educate all people and make them all eligible for the high end jobs, who does the menial jobs? The illegals? Who?

And if that is the case then we need to raise the minimum wage so noone working 40 hours is eligible for welfare, in order to fit your plan.

Fact be known people are going to have to work minimum wage jobs and if they are working their asses off and still qualify for help then we need to give it to them. Or raise the minimum wage, right?

This explains a lot in my mind Chaz. You say,

To make the highest bracket you have to make a little less than 360k. While that's good money its not that rare if you have a 2 income home and are both professionals.


Hmmm, "its not that rare."
LMAO
I dont know many people who make that. Its pretty rare!

If I could make that and own a house in Florida, Colorado, or one here, and one in the Hampton's. I would feel guilty that,

first, I didn't pay my help above the min wage, or even better than $45,000 a year. $45 k is not much in todays economy! Some here have talked about abolishing the min wage.

Second, that I asked the poorer, who do have an education (middle class) and whose children (middle class and poverty level families) fight America's wars to pay anything close to what I pay in taxes!

The statement, "its not that rare," to make $360,000 a year shows that you obviously have no idea what its like to worry week to week about earning enough to pay your bills.
You dont understand what it feels like to get up at 4 am to start a fire in the wood stove so it will be warm when your children get up at 7 am to go to school.
You dont understand what its like to have to take your children to the health dept when they are sick or have a toothache, because you cant afford health insurance.
You have no idea what its like to go to bed hungry and wake up hungrier because your parents make too much to qualify for food stamps and still didn't have enough left over from their wages to buy groceries that week.
Or maybe you do, but you've forgotten that feeling. Or maybe you just dont care!
I dont know you so I cant answer that question for you.
I know I never had to worry about it myself, but I am sensitive to people who have, and low enough on the totem-pole to know many that do worry about these things!

But the statement, "its not that rare."
Shows an elitist attitude IMO!

Minimum wage right now effective July 24th of this year is 6.55 and hour so if you work a 40 hour week you gross 262.00 per week, which equals 1048.00 gross per month. With these figures if you get 800.00 after taxes, pay 600.00 a month for rent or house payment, how do you live?

Rent is higher than that here so rent would be 800.00 for a two bedroom. How is a person supposed to live?

Rent 800.00
Public Service 100.00 (low estimate)
Childcare 180.00 per week
Food 400.00 per month (low estimate)
Health insurance 250.00 per month for a family plan (low estimate)
Car insurance 100.00 per month (low estimate)
Household needs, toilet paper, dishsoap, washing powder, shampoo, bathsoap, etc.... at least 100.00 per month
Necessities like clothing, coats, shoes, etc.... possibly another 100.00 per month depending on how many kids you have
Gas for your car 300.00 per month

So right there we have a bill of 2870.00 per month for an average family of three. How do they live? Even with two parents making minimum wage they do not reach this amount, how do they live?

And as an after thought, this family would be over income to recieve foodstamps, medicaid and possibly help with daycare so they are screwed. Income limit for a family of this size for welfare is around 800.00 dollars if my memory is correct so they can get no welfare. So they are screwed. They cannot have any luxuries in life at all.

They dont live! They survive, and barely that!

People on here talking about abolishing the min wage makes me want to cry!
Like people will go for that. Why even go to work if your going to do the job for nothing?
They need to open their eyes to the struggles of those less fortunate, open their hearts with compassion and understanding for those people's struggles, and open their minds to the ridiculousness of that suggestion!

How many badly injured for life ?.
50 , 60 thousands.....?.
Wars cost lives and money .

This is exactly the problem with republicans. Or those who claim the right wing philosophy. Either they have never done this or they forget the struggle if they ever did struggle.

This family tettering on the edge of homelessness is more the average than the well to do and yet they are the most ignored and discriminated against. God forbid that the working parent or even one of the working parents gets laid off or sick, they will be homeless

My Daddy calls it, "Forgetting your raising's,"

Most of the elitist have never know the struggle though and have grown up removed from it all in their lavish neighborhoods and lifestyles and just dont care or care to notice!

Fanta, my dad, biological, not the one who raised me, ate lunch meat for years while he was in school because they could not afford real meat. I believe they even stole it on occasion to live. Not saying that is right of course but starvation does drive people to do wrong sometimes. Anyway, NOW that he makes the high end dollar he forgets this struggle. He thinks the poor lay around on welfare and want everyone else to pay their bills, forgetting that he stole to live at one point. I am not sure how they do this, just space it, but that is the reason for this philosophy of poor and homeless VOLUNTARILY CHOOSE TO STRUGGLE OVER WORKING AND MAKING THE BIG BUCKS.

I am ashamed each time he spouts this out of his mouth because I remember his struggling days, why doesn't he?

For one you are taking my quote out of context. I said "if its a duel income home and both are professionals its not that rare."(my point being that people on this site make it seem that wealthy as far as tax is concerned are only the people that make millions of dollars.. which they aren't) I am also sure that people that make more money than you pay more in taxes.

Yes maybe a lot of those things I don't have to worry about, because I made the decision to get a degree in something where I will make decent money and definitely get health insurance. You may think that elitist, but I think of it as smart life choices. I have a medical condition that I had since I was 8 and I knew growing up that if I didn't get health insurance through a job I probably wouldn't get it at all. I made decisions based on my situation and what I want out of life. I may not live a perfect life do to medical reasons, but I work hard in hopes of making my future bright.

This however, has nothing to do with the discussion on taxes. My point was people were complaining about the tax cuts of people who were originally giving 40% of their income to the government. 40% thats crazy.

I grew up never having to worry about anything. Despite the fact that my parents had 9 children. I never considered how good we had it until I went to spend the night with a friend at his house.
They were poor and lived in a house that looked like the wind could blow it over. His father didn't live there, and the night I was there the house was cold.
We must have had 10 blankets on our beds to stay warm. I remember the beds were so old you just sank to the middle. We had Pintos without anything else for dinner. Nothing to drink but water, and in the morning no breakfast.
No TV, nothing! It all seemed normal to him, but it made a lasting impression on me. I begin to notice things like his clothes, shoes, he never had notebook paper, and that he had to borrow a pencil all the time at school. I was depressed when I went home and my mom had to explain a lot of things to me.
Then I was ashamed that I had never realized people lived that way everyday. Like I said, it made a lasting impression on me and Ive never forgotten.

And the problem with this statement is that the elite if you want to call them that, know how to work around the system so that sounds like a lot but they never, never end up paying that amount.

I have well to do in the family and I know from hearing them that the stated tax rate is not what gets paid by them at all, not even close. There are alot of tax loop holes, deductions, ways around, etc... they know and utilize to their benefit.

http://www.sharedeconomicgrowth.org/enforcingprogressivity.html

I think some of your stuff there is pretty expensive.
$400 just for food for a month for 3? I personally believe that that is an over estimate especially if you are considering children. $100 car insurance a month? Thats more than I pay and I am a male under 25 with a better car than someone you claim can barely make a living. Gas is a bit over priced as well even considering gas prices, again if they are barely making ends meet they wont have an SUV or something like that and they wont be going out a lot due to lack of funds.

This still leaves a large gap, just wanted to voice MO. This would be a perfect scenario for education assistance. The government would normally just give welfare and the family would stay in the same place. If you gave money for a couple of years and put the person in a vocational school they could learn a trade and make triple the money. They would also be able to advance and have a higher potential income.

This reform would take many many years and with advancing technology minimum wage jobs will become less and less needed. There will be a small number of people that probably won't be able to learn a trade they will work the lower paying jobs, but with less jobs like that needed a company could afford to pay a higher wage.

Those loop holes are there for anyone to use. Typically they are based on spending. You may have bought things that are tax deductible, but you most likely stilled paid sales tax on them. Also giving to charities is tax deductible.

Chaz you said,
You may think that elitist, but I think of it as smart life choices.

Elitist is an attitude. Not just having a good paying job.

Good for you, but many have never had medical Insurance, and the hope of ever going to college to get a degree is non-existent. Its a vicious cycle that has nothing to do with trying or intelligence!

For parents whose children suffer a med problem. It means their child either dies, suffers, they go in debt to pay for their children's medical care, or go to the health department for help. This means humiliation from those who seem to think they are less than them for getting welfare, but when your kids sick you swallow your pride and go.
The health department wont pay for some medical procedures, and when the parent goes in debt it works against their credit rating digging a deeper hole for them to climb out of. Another turn in the vicious cycle.

What kind of society would we be if we forget those who are less off and we dont do all we can to help them. 40% for someone who can pay is only fair if it is spent properly to help eliminate poverty! (education and health-care for all) What kind of human would whine about that?

Next time the elitist pay their gardener or weekly maid give them a raise! If your the owner of Duncan Doughnuts and are paying 75,000 for an Architect to draw up plans to build your 4 million dollar 12,000 square ft home. Pay your employee's more than $6.55 an hour!

I helped build that house, and one day when he dropped by (he was there everyday almost all day) he asked me my opinion about his fancy house.
First I asked if he wanted my honest opinion. When he told me he did, I asked him, If you can afford all this for two people to live in why dont you pay your employee's more than minimum wage? He walked away without saying a word. Luckily my boss was there and had heard the whole conversation. I was not fired, but I wouldnt have cared if I was!

My moral to this story is,
If you are lucky enough to be able to afford that much.
Don't be so damn greedy, because you aren't all that!

MCain was in St. Louis having ice cream by my house two evenings ago. He also attendend a fundraiser. Tickets ranged from $2,300 a person to $57,000 a couple.

The reason he was here - to reassure the wealthy individuals and business groups here that he is going to continue the policies of the Bush administration.

There is quite a contrast between the plight of Missouri's working families suffering under the economic downturn and those who attended the fundraiser.

St. Louis has over 2,000 people losing jobs due the closing of the Chrysler plant and we are worried over possible layoffs from the sale of Anheuser Busch to a Belgium firm.

People can't be on welfare most of their lives. They can only be on it for 4 or 5 yrs. tops. They are also put into training programs now.

I shocked that people are talking about getting rid of min. wage. I believe that the min. wage should be increased.