I just had an epiphany as well. People in the religion forum have by far the longest posts on the site.

Men. They are never satisfied.



A:
The way I see it you can imagine that either something exists or nothing exists. These are your only choices. But I don't see how it is possible for nothing to exist. Do you see another choice? I don't.

Since I know I exist, then I am going to go with the idea that "something" does indeed exist. For one, that would be me. --->

Imagining the beginning of everything, you have the very same question. Exist or not. Something or nothing. That is the choice. There is no other choice. To be or not to be, that is the question.

I know that I exist and I reasoned that NOTHING cannot "exist" (as a condition.)

It is like saying that zero exists.

"Something" is a condition. Nothing does not exist. Like zero. To say that nothing can exist, you have got to then agree that zero exists, which you Abra, have explained to me that zero does not exist.

The same is true for nothing. Nothing = zero. It does not exist.




If you agree that zero and nothing cannot and does not exist.... what is the alternative?

If you think that nothing or zero can exist, then please describe it for me. Then please explain to me what is left and who is doing the describing.

If nothing can not exist, then what does exist? If nothing can exist, please describe it.

In other words, describe zero.



("Nothing can just not exist as a thing right along with everything else that's not existing.")

That is the funniest thing I have ever heard. Nothing cannot not exist as a thing because it is NOT A THING.

LOL You really crack me up.

But I'll still take the spanking.

JB

People often give this as an option but it's not really.

I'm taking about where the universe came from, and how life came about.

I'm not talking about how humans happened to wind up on earth.

If you claim that aliens brought us here, then you're still stuck with how they came to be.

This would even be true if you wanted to claim that beings from another 'dimension' put us here.

The question still remains, where did any form of life come from originally?

Hey, we are trying to solve the mystery of the very fabric of the entire reality we live in. Its not an easy undertaking.

Good, Kat's making arrangements for the room.

Or we could use the shed out back with a hickory stick.

Hey, it beats the "Would you lick the armpit of the person above you?" threads.

Unless, of course, you're into licking armpits.

Well I certainly wouldn't admit it to you.

Not in public anyway.

I know, but you will never solve it; it's a matter of who has the best argument; and that doesn't matter either because you all talk and talk and never change each other's views.
It's actually kind of funny to watch as an outsider.

Hey...but the brain gets a workout. I need a reminder now and again that there is actually something going on inside there.(my head) It takes nothing to go into those do this do that above and below you threads.
Licking armpits?? Eeeeuuuuwwwww.....unless it's_____________

Kat

Yup.... a brand new one too. It has a good breakfast in the morning, and all the showers you want. It even has flicks for those that have interest in them.
You will have to bring your own spanking stuff, uh....well....let me check.

Kat

since mankinds existence his moral character has not improved, take away his percieved advances in the technological field's of space and industry and you still have the same moral man of what he was at the beginning.we are still just as capable of starting wars,raping, pillaging,destroying and all the other immoral acts of his own history.

What good is it to try and know things we will not know while wearing this selfish flesh? how will this in anyway "improve" who man is at his core? we only have a split second of life -do you really choose to use it to waste your time pondering the un-knowable? search out instead who you are JB - for you are the only thing you can ever really know with full understanding - all else is foolish.

"I know, but you will never solve it"

Don't bet on it.

Changing each other's view is not the goal here. Exploring the possibilities is.

JB

How did our universe begin?

How old is our universe?

How did matter come to exist?

Obviously, these are not simple questions and throughout our brief history on this planet much time and effort has been spent looking for some kind of clue. Today we still don't know and we come with only speculations!

Perhaps modern science will have firm theories that will replace once called hypotheses.

If there is a pantheistic view of seeing a entity then perhaps that entity was very wise to create a question! Very few animals use questions. I know this sound ironic but imagine that perhaps in our spiritual form(if there is one) we chose to make sure when we become in human form born as a baby that we will not know how everything started for we wanted it so and therefore invented te question. Why is this and why is that to make it challenging.

So in this lifetime we are to not worry about why or how life started but enjoy this type of experience and as we pass away we are back to our original form knowing how everything started. Sounds absurd I know but thank my vivid imagination of sillyness!

What we do know today is that our universe is consistently expanding. Meaning it is getting larger and larger. Edwin Hubble discovered this in his research.

So if this is to be true that our universe is consistently enlarging then perhaps the scientists predictions of how old our universe could be true. It is said to be 15 billion years old! So 15 billions years ago a big explosion happened in which we call it the big bang theory. Hey this is better then a hypothesis!

What I find ironic is religious organizations are starting to believe in such theories let alone that perhaps there are aliens that live on other planets. Don't believe me then read up on the Catholic Church and its announcements once in awhile!

In time we will have more answers, yet perhaps we are living in nothing more then a imagination! That could be a possibility. 6 billion people having the same dream, but in reality there is NOTHING. I know another absurd idea from me.

I have no answers and never will have answers for this and remain agnostic at best.

Everyones perspectives could be the right answer if we have open minds to listen to them and perhaps everyones religious beliefs included, as of what atheist consistently ask.

Perhaps ...just maybe... it is better we don't know!

Well, ok, that's OBVIOUS!

Clearly we exist. No question about that.

In that sense it's impossible for nothing to exist because we already DO exist.



I can SEE that. I'm not THAT supid! Or at least if I am um not going to admit it.

I thought you were trying to somehow claim that it's apparent that nothing cannot exist under any circumstances, THUS the reason that we must exist.

That I can't see.

But taking into account the fact that we ARE here, then clearly nothing cannot exist. Gotcha!

But that's obvious.



I enjoy ponding these things and beating on the bible.

I quess that makes me a bible thumper.



Oooooooo! What kind of flicks?

I just watched "Gone With the Wind", last night. It's been a very long time since I saw that movie. Frankly I was a bit surprised by it. Scarlett didn't seem to be all that bad by the end of the movie. It almost appeared that she had truly learned her lesson. I guess it was just too little too late.

Also, even though Rhett walked out on her she was still quite wealthy, and fairly young and pretty even yet. She could easily start over again with a new beau. Especially considering the way men were always tripping over her anyway.

I don't remember it ending like that before. My older impression of the movie was more like she had been devastated. But this time around it just looked like she was just going to keep on truckin.

She was in better shape at the end of that movie that I'm in. And I wasn't nearly as conniving as her.

tribo

You have a poor opinion of mankind in general, and I disagree with it. Perhaps you have placed your attention on the wrong parts of humanity. I see a spiritual awakening happening in general. (But because incarnations happen in any time line, there will always be ignorance, war etc. on this planet. There will always be a mixture of great and immoral humans in any given time line. That is part of the journey of the human race.



Learning "who I am" is part of the journey to truth. That is what it is all about actually. I believe that I am connected to all that is and that I AM THAT. It is not a "waste of time" at all, and it is not "unknowable."

Of course no single entity will ever know it all, and we will never stop learning and growing and expanding. The human consciousness is only a stepping stone on the path of awareness.

No, it is not a waste of time for me. Life is a joy of discovery, even with the good and the bad. This is where you will find joy.

JB

Truly.

I just ramble on and on and on.

If people get tired of my drivel it's their own fault for reading it.

Actually I was claiming that.

If you think that nothing CAN exist... under any circumstances, then please describe it to me.

Can Zero exist?

If it can, then what is it? Describe it.

Now tell me who is doing the describing.

This is perfectly logical to me.


JB

it's not a poor opinion of mankind at all - it's a true opinion - hahaha - i'm hopefully optomistic for mankind a pessamistic optimist! i feel though that one must know themselves before they can start to know all else in a meaningful way. especially each other. what i try to do is get man to findout what he truly is first in hope that he will work on himself to become a better moral person, if we all accomplish that - then there is hope for mankind- if not then it will be the same old same old as long as we are here - a quick overview of history readily points this out. i d not think there is anything inherently wrong with what is spoken here - i just believe man spends to much time accomplish nothing for his own improvement. if you enjoy this that's fine and for abra also - and all others - but when all is said and done - at the end of your life - what will this have gained you?

I'm familiar with three theories of science.

Quantum Field Theory - The Big Bang began from a quantum fluctuation based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. And then inflated to a gargantuan size by the Inflation theory put forth by Alan Guth.

Quantum Theory requires the preexistence of quantum field.

Loop Quantum Gravity - claims that the Big Bang that gave rise to our universe is actually the result of a black hole in another universe.

Loop Quantum Gravity requires the preexistence of other unvierses.

That's kind of redundant and circular I think.

String Theory - claims that there are many parallel universe that keep bumping into each other causing Big Bangs.

String Theory requires the preexistence of many parallel universe.

Again a bit redundant.

There are other theories but these are the top three. I personally Like the Quantum Field Theory one the best.

None of them explains anything really, and they all require that something else already preexists.



I don't either. And ultimatley I'm also agnostic. However, when I say that I really just mean that I can't say with certainty whether we are spirit or that the atheists are right.

When I say that I'm agnostic that doesn't mean that I think just any religion might be true. I'm pretty convinced that none of the ancient godhead-type religions are true. Even if there is a head honcho, I don't think he wrote any books.

Well those who know me know that I believe that there is a world like the fantasy games I play with dragons, pixies, blind sages, and funny bards who talk to goblins and ghouls.

Yes it really exists and they are the ones who started this whole universe. If we could only get to them one day to get the answers we sooo seek!

How dare I to write this in here lol

One day I am sure we will get there and I will be a level 59 human monk with tons of spells to make sure to be prepared for the worst answers or maybe the best ones.