again JB you have to say that I am a lower human being.....I have nor would I ever make a sacrafice of anyone....But I do understand why it was done in the days it was.

And if you have truly seen miracles then good deal, and I have no problem with you worshiping or having any relationship with what you believe to be your God.

All I ask is to please please stop putting mine down. Taking what was done in ancient times and making that your whole basis for what God is about is very short minded and truly one sided. And not at all the truth of God Almighty.

I am not putting yours down. What was done in ancient times is relevant if it is true.

Is it true? Then it should be considered.

If it is not true, then it is not relevant.

If what was done in ancient times is NOT relevant, than you should abandon the Bible altogether and forget about all the stories and even the crucification.

If it is true, then I have every right to consider it in an effort to understand it in a reasonable context.

In doing so, I ask questions. They may be hard questions, but I am NOT putting you down for your beliefs. I am just trying to understand how you arrived at your conclusions.

Do not take it personal please. If I am offending people with my interrogation I will stop asking questions.

JB

See how you have taken what I say personal?

I did not say YOU were a lower human being.

We all live in the lowest density world, we are probably governed by lower administrators of this reality and we may have mistook them for Gods. That is what I mean to suggest.

Of course it is relevant because with all of the old testament it is teaching what could be if you do things your way. And in that time the sacrifices were what was required. But GOD gave the greatest sacrifice of all when He gave us his only Son......JESUS CHRIST..........The Bible is God's inspired word of what he wants for us....why the heck would you even consider or be so bold as to ask me such a dumb thing. Again you and claiming the stories......It is what happen and that has never been questioned, and is backed up by history.....Do ypu honestly think that God would let something that was of anything but him be around for 2000+ years...I think not. What exactly backs up your god? Have I not answered every question you have put forth.....now you may not like my answers but if that is the case, then maybe you need to ask in another forum.....Have I also not explained over and over and over how I have arrived at my conclusions? What part of what I have stated do you not understand? It's not that your insulting me personally heck no JB.....but you are personally insulting my God, My Christ, and God's written word.

Really? You mean we are not supposed to do things our way? No free will? Do you assume that doing things our way would be wrong or bad?

Do you assume or believe all humans to be inherently evil?




Required by whom? Required why??





He agreed to sacrifice his own child .. to whom?




I am bold by nature.

And it is not a dumb question. It is a sincere question.





You must be kidding. It is constantly being and was always questioned. Except back then the questioners were often put to death. So eventually people learned not to question.



My God needs no backup.



You tried to the best of your ability, I give you that.




I guess the part where God "showed you things." That part was a little vague.



Really? If I have insulted them they haven't mentioned it to me. And I don't understand how one can insult a book. Do books have feelings? (I kid you here of course.)

If I am to assume that the Bible is an accurate or truthful account of God's work on this planet and then use it for the basis for what this God is all about, why would you say to me that it is short minded and one sided?

I don't get that at all.

Suppose I said I believed all of those stories and decided that I did not particularly like that God or some of the things he did?

How can you tell me that I have insulted a book when all I am doing is trying to consider the information for what it says?

If I did not consider the information might have some validity, I would not bother with it.

But you imply that because I dare to question it, that I insult "your God" and "your savior" and "the book itself."

That is what I call passion. I understand you are the one who feels insulted. I did not mean to insult you. I am sorry.

I will not ask any more of these questions of you.

JB

If someone such as myself loves the Lord then I want to please him, and it's not that I always do....I just try harder to do so then someone who doesn't know Him...And it's not that I can't do things my way.......the only time that it's even a factor is if their is something that I would do that would not please him....And I know as soon as I do it.....But the biggest difference is that I do know and still because of my free will choose to do it.

No I do not assume all human are inherently evil.....inherently sinful yes.


And as far as sacrafices and offerings....The main reason that they were done in old testament times was because God was so Holy and Pure and men were sinful. And the only way to God was through the blood of the sacrifice or offering....What this meant is for example It was required by God....the first born unblemished goat be sacrificed and when it was killed the sin from man went into the goat and then it was burnt.......then God could be in the picture.....I will give you a few examples.

Exodus 10:25
25 But Moses said, "You must allow us to have sacrifices and burnt offerings to present to the LORD our God.

Exodus 20:24
Make an altar of earth for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, your sheep and goats and your cattle. Wherever I cause my name to be honored, I will come to you and bless you.

Exodus 24:5
Then he sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as fellowship offerings to the LORD.

Grain offerings were also done as a thank you to God. If you read Leviticus it explains all of the different sacrifices and offerings.

Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice for mankind and was known before he was even sent to earth. When Christ died on the Cross and his last words were, "Father why has thou forsaken me." God did not......But the sin was so great on Jesus that his Father had to turn away.....just like in old testatment days when they sacraficed and animal through the blood of the animal in order to get close to God.....Same with his Son.....The sin of the world was sooooooooo great, but it was necessary for the world.


Yes you are bold JB and I apologize for being so testy...

It is questioned by non-believers......but of course your going to question something you don't understand...but if you did understand it as with me....I don't question it....and I look at it again as a direct slap in God's face......And this is not due to fear but out of respect for Father God.

And JB if my GOD needs to be backed up....well golly ding dang so does yours......Explain to me your god JB......Who is he/she? What is the purpose of your god? Does your god have rules?

I'm am not sure what you mean by I answered to the best of my ability.....I know the Lord's word, I know His purpose for this world, I don't think you have gotten any more straight forward answers to the questions you seek.....

What I mean by God showing me things.....I will give you a few examples. My mom was dying, I was not a Christian but did believe in God. I went up to my mothers home to spend her last days with her. I was out in the backyard and we are talking the Mojave Desert here....There was not a cloud in the sky.....I said ok God if you are real....you show me......And just as the last word came out of my mouth the most beautiful funnel cloud came directly to me....blues and greens and pinks and purples.....remember not one single cloud as far as the eye could see. I said to myself, "self ok" and that was that.

three days later I was driving home to Los Angeles to get some more clothes and go back to moms. I was in the middle of my driveway and again I said, "God if you are real, show me" Within 1 second thousands of lavender butterflies were all around me. Now I have seen these same butterflies but in a pale yellow.....never lavender which was my moms and my favorite color. They were all around me....no a few but literally thousands....I touched them and was just amazed......and bam they were gone. Ok I looked up to the heavens and tears were just pouring down my face......I just said thank you.

I then went back to my moms and was taking care of her as usual. Then in the clearest voice and wide awake the Lord spoke to my heart. He said Debbie it is time.......And he said this a few times. I was startled as no one was there except myself and my mother, just as he said that my mother said.....no mom and dad I can't.....I knew.....don't know how but I knew....she said no mom and dad I can't go who is going to take care of Bill(dad) and Debbie (me) And I said (crying) Mom if that is your mom and dad in heaven go to them. I will take care of dad and dad will take care of me......and she was gone.......I wasn't as sad as I thought I would be....I was at peace because I was told....and because I could feel The Lord and angels all around me.

So skip 10 years.......I was now going to church and how I was saved is another story....another time...giggle. So I was at a lady's dinner where they had this guest speaker....Her name is Lola who is a prophet.....A prophet is one that is basically a direct link to God......Anyways she was going around the room and giving a word of God to all the elders wives in the church. I remember thinking this is a bunch of poppy ****. Anyway she then came to me.....Her eyes pierced mine......she just stood silent for a second with tears......She said to me.....these exact words. Oh the Lord has great plans for you......But none of it will come to fruition until you forgive your brother. Again JB no one....I mean one in my life knew about my brother......So I just knew that this was real and God was speaking to me through Lola. She went on to say the Lord is going to give you mighty gifts. More mighty then you can imagine.......You are going to be like a newspaper boy on the streets of new York City, come come hear about the Lord. She then went on to give me the rest of the word of the Lord. She also said to not be fearful of your dreams, that when the time is right it will be revealed.

so again my life went on and I started playing on the internet. This was about 8 years later. All this time my faith and my love for the Lord was getting stronger and stronger. So I was on another site and again the Lord spoke to my heart. It is time......kept saying over and over......And I was thinking ok......what....I prayed and I prayed. Then one day I was in a forum and the Lord gave me this.....ask the people what shoes they are wearing and you will tell them a little about themselves and what the Lord wants for their lives.

so I did, and it was crazy......People would come and tell me and I would most of the time just start typing not knowing what I was typing until I was done....and then read it.....and be amazed and send.....Now normally on this site it was approximately 10 pages.....This one went to 567 pages and even when the admin of this site closes the forum down after 10 this one kept going and going. How is that? (I know) I was also given the gifts of both healing and the gift of tongues....which is to speak in tongues sounds like another language and is used to pray without satan being able to understand. And I have many many more but I think you get the jest of it.


And before you can even say it....No I am no different then any other human being on this planet...I am only a servant of the Lord and serving as he shows me......

Thanks those are very amazing stories!!

JB

I don't think your God needs any back up either. Maybe you need it, but I don't think God needs it.

God is God.

God's purpose is to be and grow and expand and experience all manner of life.

It is my job to help and to live my life and to let God experience life through my eyes and my body.

It is my job to learn to love and to learn create good things.

JB

Rules: No rules, only suggestions. For the little self has free will and will learn and be subject to the laws of the universe which will be the guide for learning.

My only rule for myself is: Do what is right.

You might not like Noah's ark, Rabbit, but remember, amateurs built the ark and professionals built the Titanic!

I think those are admirable........and what are the laws of the universe and who created the laws? And doing what is right is again just something that most should right? So then tell me for you if everyone is to do right to be at one with the universe why is that not the case?

The Laws don't moralize. They are not "rules." They are the laws of cause and effect. Action and reaction down to the very smallest quantum unit. Everyone is subject to the laws of the universe, however different universes might have slightly different laws depending upon the design.

They (the laws) are part of the design of the working body, (of God) created with intelligence and through trial and error, like any other design.

There is not one exterior God who did it all, it was a combined effort of all connected universal thinking centers. (beings)

You might call the Law "The Golden Rule." Do unto others... but that is just a suggestion.. and perhaps a good idea. The law has automatic consequences. (Sow what you reap)





"Do what is right." is my own rule. It implies that I make my own decisions on what is right, without outside authority. If I make a mistake, I pay for my own mistake through the universal law of cause and effect. When I learn by my mistake, I don't make that mistake again... sometimes it takes several repeated mistakes to learn though...

Some people prefer not to take the responsibility of deciding what is right. They seek outside authority to tell them what they should do because they are not sure what is right.

They live by rules made by an accepted higher authority. If they disobey the rules, they may ask for forgiveness. If have truly repented, then they have usually learned by their mistake and they intend never to make that mistake again. But they are still subject to the law of cause and effect.

The benefit of learning from your mistake is that you don't repeat it.

The difference between deciding what is right for yourself, and obeying rules is that when you obey rules, you have given your power to decide what is right to an outside authority, be it the Church or the Government, or the school etc.

I trust myself to know right from wrong.

I don't trust the establishment.

That is not saying that I always break their rules, but it is saying that I reserve the right to decide for myself about any rule put to me and take full responsibility for my choices.


JB

Wow, this is about the most drivel I have ever seen written in any one place on any one suject with the exception of my local newspaper. It's all personal opinions slamming a book! Whew! How uninformed "know it alls" sure do surface spouting things that are so unfounded!

I will make an exception and that is ferelcatlady. Get a grip everybody, the Bible is a book of Faith. Do we need to have a special thread on what the word "faith" means?

By the way one point made that I just can't let go. Noah's flood never happened? Try following the reseach done by the great National Geographic marine archaeologist Robert Ballard (discoverer of the Titanic). Also, cross-reference Noah's great flood with other ancient, non-bliblical accounts of a great flood. You'll find a few ancient references to it.

Please, uninformed drivel wears on me.

Whether s discussion is drivel or not is your opinion. If it wears on you don't bother to read it.

Whether there was a flood at the time specified that spanned the entire globe is debatable. Science says no. Believe what you want.

Stories of the discovery of Noah's ark are highly suspect.

JB

ty bobby........and JB as bobby stated I guess it comes down to my faith......that I do believe all in the bible including noah's ark.....I have even done thread with proof of the flood in relation to the dino's becoming extinct.

A little follow-up. Yes, it wears on me and you are probably right. I should refrain from the forums. Perhaps what brings me to them is the urge we all have to educate others and enlighten.

Now just a few words about the Biblical flood. Set your mind back to the world as it existed over 5,000 years ago. Remember, it was "flat" until the 15th century. The world to the ancients was the lands they knew and traveled. So, the world, to them was, by our modern view was a very small place. Now imagine the size of the Black Sea and that Robert Ballard discovered remnants of ancient human habitat deep into that sea. The "great flood", perhaps! There are stories of a great flood, from not only the Israelites, but the Babylonians (pre-dating Genesis), Greeks, Romans,

Oops, hit the wrong key...to continue...

There are stories of a great flood, from not only the Israelites, but the Babylonians (pre-dating Genesis), Greeks, Romans, Irish and even North American Indians! Ballard's discoveries do fit very well though. So, did it happen? It's fast becoming no longer a mater of faith, but rather, a matter of fact. At least with what happened with the formation of the Black Sea.

Yes I believe there was a great big flood. I doubt it covered the entire earth, but to those people back then, it may as well have.

I wish I could find the thread I did on this.....even I believe what happen to the dinosaurs was the great flood....If you look at how they are found on excavation sites now.....they were all upward as if they were trying to get away from something......not flat as if it came from space. They were trying to get away from the flood....and what lived through it....anthing that was waterbound.....

That is not possible according to time frames. Humans and dinosaurs are not believed to have existed on the earth at the same time.

JB