BigCurt_31...
Fair enough Curt.

I'll IM you so we don't hijack the thread.

No matter the conspiracy.....the rules are now written for all to heed.

What do you mean by "dual citizens in govt"? Please explain. I have seen you write this many times and I fail to understand your point. I have some knowledge of the government security clearance process and dual citizenship is not tolerated in that process. Denouncing the dual citizenship is required before a security clearance is approved. Please, smo... explain what you mean.

For those about to engage in the (futile) attempt to debate believers in "conpiracy," be prepared to enter a place where logic and reason have no meaning - and where the rules for debate are not the same for both sides.

"Conpiracy" believers usually feel that they are in a privileged position when it comes to debate. Being in possession of a "revealed truth", they tend to feel that anyone who does not share their beliefs is obliged to defend their skepticism. This is expressed as a set of (until now) unwritten rules of debate that place the skeptic and rationalist in an inferior position.

As with the lottery, this should be done for entertainment only - you have about the same chance of changing a "true
believer's" mind as you have of winning the lottery. That said, it CAN be fun, if you have the right attitude and know the
rules.

Here are the unspoken ground rules that the "conpiracy" believers impose on any debate:

[1] The experts you quote are corrupt, short-sighted, narrow-minded reactionaries. The experts they quote are altruistic,
visionary, open-minded progressives.

[2] In "conpiracy", everyone is a victim - of corrupt politicans, polluting corporations, government, etc. Their delusions are never caused by their own lifestyle choices (e.g. drug abuse, too little exercise, drinking too much, etc.), genetics or random chance. And their beliefs in "conpiracy" are most definitely NOT psychosomatic or imaginary. To even imply
otherwise is a serious breach of etiquette.

[3] "Victims" of a "conpiracy", or having a family member (e.g. parent, spouse, etc.) that are "victims" of a "conpiracy" are unimpeachable expert on that "conpiracy". Any lack of formal education, training or expertise is more than compensated by intimate knowledge as a conpiracy believer.

[4] Scientific method is merely a ploy to keep the truth of "conpiracy" hidden so that corrupt politicans and "Big Government" can continue to profit from human misery. This is no different from the oil companies and auto manufacturers that have hidden the secret of cars that run on water or get 2000 miles to the gallon of gasoline.

[5] Peer-reviewed scientific journals are part of a massive "conspiracy" to suppress "conpiracy" data. Forcing "conpiracy" practitioners to show their data is categorically unfair - they are much too busy saving lives to be bothered with proving what they already know is true.

[6] No matter how outrageous their claim is, it is true unless you can prove it false.

[7] You can never prove any "conpiracy" claim false because you are "biased" (i.e. you don't already believe them). Only a
person who is "open-minded" (see below) can evaluate their claims in a fair and impartial manner.

[8] "Open-minded" means "willing to permanently suspend disbelief." If you insist on holding on to your old, outmoded
ideas (such as chemistry, biology, physics, anatomy, physiology or even simple logic), you will be blind to their new truth.

[9] Their anecdotes and testimonials are equivalent to (if not superior to) your data. After all, everybody knows that data
can be faked (and that people never, ever lie).

[10] The fact that politicans, government contractors make money is proof that they are all evil, corrupt and will do anything for a buck (US dollar). When "conpiracy" practitioners make money, they are just getting what they
deserve for "helping" so many people.

[11] "Tolerance", for you, means swallowing their line of "reasoning" without complaint (or gagging). For them, "tolerance" means letting you get in a few words when they take a breath. You'll know that the debate is over when they call you a "nazi" (or similar epithet) - it's just their little way of showing tolerance for other points of view.

[12] You can't convince them, so don't try to - just enjoy the game. The "conpiracy" believers desperately want to be taken
seriously, so don't get defensive - it just gives them credibility in the eyes of the public. Try laughing instead. There will probably be other people listening that may see the logic in your reasoning, so your efforts are not in vain.

Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war. They complain about his prosecution of it. One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S. history. Let's clear up one point: We didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11! Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims:

FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5800 per year.

Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled Al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 a year. Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.

Worst president in history? Think about it!

Wilson was the worst president of them all. Your attempts to rewrite history keep failing so please stop. Anyone care to read about Woody?
http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0803/0803worstpres.htm

Bardicverse...
Did your words kill the thread?

Ron Paul is trying to say that the words "95% of black men are criminals" weren’t written by him (but rather someone else helping him with his newsletter), but c’mon. Let’s be serious. If they appeared in his newsletter attributed to him then he’s responsible. An apology, not an excuse, is what’s needed.

TR founded the Bull Moose party because his hand-picked successor(Taft) had the support for the 1912 republican party nomination. In doing so he assured the defeat of both parties and handed the presidency to the democratic nominee Woodrow Wilson. That is the legacy of TR on the republican party.

BigCurt_31...
You closed your diatribe with the words "Enough said". But it's not enough said. When you make your case for the problems you see today and do not offer any solution, you are doing nothing more than b*tching and moaning. I salute your service to our country. That is the essence of patritotism. When I read your words I get a sense that you feel betrayed by your country because it has not met your expectations. Being a fellow veterern of our armed forces, you have ever right to have high expectations for our country. Let me assure you the situation is not hopeless. This countries government is not what makes it great, it is it's people that make it great. The power of the people can fix what is wrong today. The solutions are out there among the people. I respect your opinion so be heard and offer solutions. You have identified the problem. What are you going to do about it?

Here is where your understanding of things is wrong. We are allowed to vote for who we THINK represents us. If what you said was true, there would not be such a huge disapproval rating with Congress and the President. The representitives back then were not professional politicians. Today politics is a business and the politicians are in it to make money. If not for themselves then for companies they have ties to. You can't be elected President today without already having made a fortune. Politicians are bought all the time and you wonder why they don't represent us anymore. It's because the people who we THINK will represent our best interests only serve themselves. How do we solve this? Term limits. Oversight reform. Investing more in smaller business and less in big business. Contractor accountability. It is WE THE PEOPLE that elect our representatives but until those representatives understand loyalty to WE THE PEOPLE comes first, or they will not get re-elected, we will continue to have what we have.

you need to stop drumming up controversy

do you want to be reported? no personal attacks. read the rules before you post

let it go. it does not matter. leave'em alone. it's not your business

I hope so...cheaters should lose.

nope... mzkat, you will be wearing lightning bolts,lol

funny when pats fan respond when cheater is mentioned.

Where are all the Colts fans now? How sad you must be.