Eventually, God decided to stop taking mercy on the Pharoah and instead used the Pharoah to show God's power to the world. During the plagues, the Pharoah would agree to free the Israelites, but when the plague was gone, he would refuse. Five times Pharoah did that. At that point, God decided that Pharoah would be made into a vessel for wrath.


It looks like here god displayed vanity, vengeance, and wrath.

He didn't even display the vengeance and wrath on the Pharaoh, but the Egyptian people, and their children?

Are these some of the qualities of the chritian god? Is this an example to follow?

Spidercmb,

No…read again. I did take into consideration that you stated that he took only one “kind” of species. In fact I calculated only .0001 of all 300 million species (we could go less, if you like). One minute\per to board the ship, when standing right in front of the ship itself - and it would still take over 11 years. That first species will sit on the Arc 11 years before the last one gets on.

Quote from Nina herself: “That (color) it's not about race — it's about sun and about how close our ancestors lived to the Equator. Skin color is what regulates our body's reaction to the sun and its rays. Dark skin evolved to protect the body from excessive sun rays. Light skin evolved when people migrated away from the Equator and needed to make vitamin D in their skin. To do that, they had to lose pigment. Repeatedly over history, many people moved dark to light and light to dark. That shows that color is not a permanent trait.” - Nina G. Jablonski

-Source:
Dreifus, Caudia (2007, jan 9). Human skin is an anthropologist's map. Retrieved November 19, 2007, from International Herald Tribune Web site: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/09/healthscience/snskin.php

Color does not differentiate species. My skin and hair change color every season. A dog can change color in a generation, but to fundamentally change into another species? That takes quite a bit more than 1000 yrs.

I summerized the topic for every one of those scriptures I referred to. I already did the research for you. But you’re right; I could only list a summary. You can take my word for it..not suggested. (heck you would be doing that even if I had listed the scriptures in detail), but if you want even more detail that would be up to you.

.....I was just trying to make it quicker reading.

Ejay, rambill79, and spidercmb –

Alright, here I go. But I probably won’t do this for much longer, as we all have better things to do. You incorrect, I did display inconsistencies inside the bible. The Christian god commands that:

“Thou shalt not commit murder” – (one of the 10 commandments)

***…but he also commanded stoning to death for working on the Sabbath – among other reasons***

(Numbers 15:35 - And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.)

(Exodous 31:14 14 - Ye shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death)

Nubers 16:35 - And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men

***….Women for sleeping around, having an affair, or prostitution I can’t tell witch. My question…is the man blameless in this act?***

Deut 22:21 - Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Lev 21:9 - And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Lev 24:23 - And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses.

My particular favorite is when god “hardens pharaoh’s heart” and doesn’t let Moses’s people go, so god implements the 10 plagues. (Exodus 4:21) This includes killing all first born sons.

In essence, god made pharaoh refuse, so he could punish the Egyptian people, who had nothing to do with the pharaoh’s decision, even if god DIDN’T influence it. God manipulates man's free will, by hardening Pharaoh's heart, so that God can display his glory. Explain to me how this is moral….in any context.


Again, I could go on for a long time. Throughout the bible the Christian god commands horrible and unspeakable acts. Most of the 10 commandments call for a death sentence. I’m not sure what kind of moral code this is, but I don’t like it.


The typical argument is: “you are taking these out of context”. Then I challenge you to put them in a reasonable context that modern - moral society will accept. If anyone can explain the morality of what I have written so far, one would have to question their sense of right and wrong.

But, I guess I was trying to point out inconsistencies with the real, physical, world, not the mythological world of the bible.

Let me point out that I can’t argue against “Faith”. I won’t try. I can only argue with reason. As Mark Twain said, “Faith is believing what you know ain’t true.”



Spidercmb –

I always dislike arguing the Noah story, because I think it’s one of the most outlandish in the bible, but I did start argument, sooo…….

Genesis 6:15 states that Noah's ark was 300 cubits by 50 cubits by 30 cubits in size. We know that a cubit was approximately 18 inches, yielding a volume (if perfectly rectangular, the most voluminous possible shape of three unequal dimensions) of 1,518,750 cubic feet. Into this, you must fit two of each of the 30,000,000 species on earth, plus the food to keep all of them alive for a month. You argue one of each kind, so let’s say .0001 of that number was on the boat. So 300,000 x 2 (male\female). That’s still over ½ a million animals!

If you gathered a male and a female of one species every ten seconds, it would take about ten years to gather up 30 million of them. And mind you, you've got to go to Antarctica to get penguins, the Arctic to get polar bears, Asia to get tigers, Australia to get kangaroos, Africa to get gorillas, South America to get tapirs and agoutis, etc., and you have got to get them back with an adequate supply of their required food and put them in the Ark within ten seconds. Then when the flood's over, you've got to take another ten years to put them all back at the rate of a species every ten seconds.
But lets do the “one kind of every animal” argument, taking one minute (It takes me longer than a minute to properly load on to a ship – no less than 5minutes) to load each animal (.5 million of them) would take 11 years, non-stop, twenty four hours a day.


rambill79 –

I Kings 7:23 describes a "Sea" (or huge bowl) of cast metal that is circular in shape. It measures 10 cubits "from rim to rim" and 30 cubits around it. That implies that pi = 3. The circumference of a circle is equal to the diameter times pi, or 3.1415. Therefore the circumference of the "sea" had to have been 31.4 cubits if its diameter was ten cubits.

An incorrect number is an incorrect number, regardless of culture. The laws of mathematics are consistent across all cultures and times. If this is God's word, God should certainly have known that the circumference had to be more than 30 cubits if the "sea" was round and 10 cubits in diameter.

“Faith is believing what you know ain’t true.”
- Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens)


Also…spidercmd.

You are right. Although I’ve never heard the term, I guess I would be using a “shotgun argument”, by not using a great deal of scriptures.

The bible is huge! I don’t know how else to present my argument other than to pick out scriptures that support it. I would challenge you to present your argument any differently, without leaving out a great deal of scripture.


….whew…I think I may be done.

Wow....thats a lot on my short comment, but OK. I like this type of debate, as long as no-one gets emotional, pissed off, and starts name calling. It's no longer a debate then, but emotional personal attacks. If that happens, I quit.

To respond:

The fact that the Bible is the most printed book in the world doesn’t make it true. What it does say it that more people in history have been indoctrinated into Christianity. The Crusades, Inquisition, even today Christian missionaries feed starving people in Africa, in hopes to convert. If Islam has its way it will be the most published book in history. It wouldn’t make it true. Yes, quotations of Chairman Mao. Second most sold, doesn’t make correct.

Sure, ½ of Old testament writers may have finished their writings before the birth of Siddhartha, but that would make less than ¼ of total bible writers. And then it wasn’t called the Old testament, it was called the Torah (the Jewish “bible”). No belief has ever been forced upon so many people in history that would probably explain much of the opposition. None of this information makes the content of the bible any truer.

For example the bible claims that the ratio of a circle it 3:1…..even the ancient Egyptians got it more accurate than that. Space travel would be impossible with such inaccurate calculations. Do you think an omnipotent being would allow inaccuracies this obserred in its message?

As far as I know, historians have never debated that Pontius Pilate existed. He was a real Roman Governor for that area in that period of time. But this proves that the Jesus story would be as true as Dan Brown’s, “Da Vinci Code”. He writes a religious story made up of fictional characters in real places, in a real time, referring to real people. Even today, some people claim the information in that book is accurate. What might they believe in 2000 yrs?

Did Jesus wear a scarlet of a red robe? Who cares? What does that have to do with anything, proved or disproved either way?

1632 Galileo proved that the earth was not the center of the universe. This resulted in Galileo's conviction on suspicion of heresy and a lifetime house arrest. The Catholic Church finally acknowledged it's "mistake" in 1992, only 23 years after man first landed on the moon!

Because of religion, many sick people have also been claimed to have been possessed. In no school of thought could people have made up such crazy ideas, except through religion. No unscientific views (see ratio of circle). No harmful practices? I could go on, and on, and on, and on…..but here are just a few.

An angel killing 185,000 people in one night
II Kings 19:35
Bears devouring 42 children
II Kings 2:23-24
Beating slaves to death in stages
Ex. 21:20-21
Beating your child black and blue
Proverbs 23:14
Proverbs 22:15
Proverbs 22:13
Proverbs 20:30
Boiling and eating your son
II Kings 6:29
Burning books, denouncing science, closing mouths.
Acts 19:19 (books)
Titus 1:10-11 (mouths)
I Timothy 6:20 (science)
I Cor. 3:18 (fools)
Burning women accused of witchcraft and men accused of wizardry (Witchcraft & Wizardry? Are you serious? A 10 commandment punshment)
Lev. 20:27
Ex. 22:18
Burning your only daughter alive to fulfill a promise
Judges 11:39
Burning your son as a sacrifice
II Kings 3:27
Burning 250 princes alive
Num. 16:35
Burying a criminal's wife and children alive
Num. 16:27, 33
Buying a wife with 200 male foreskins
I Sam. 18:25
Buying your rape victim for your wife
Deut. 22:29
Chopping off heads, hands, feet, ears and plucking out eyes
Matt. 18:8-9
John 18:10
Num. 25:9
Matt. 14:10
II Sam. 4:7, 12
Cursing people with blindness, leprosy, hemorrhoids, consumption, madness, sickness, starvation, thirst, pestilence
Num. 12:10
II Kings 5:27
II Kings 15:5
II Kings 6:18
Acts 13:6-12
Lev. 26:16-39
Deut. 28:15-68
I Sam. 5:6
II Sam. 24:15
Cutting up a woman's body and distributing the pieces
Judges 19:29
Dashing little ones against the stones
Psalm 137:9
Isaiah 13:16
Forbidding women to learn, adorn themselves, speak in church, teach or visit friends
I Cor. 14:34-35
I Tim. 2:11-12
I Tim. 5:13
I Tim. 2:9
Forcing a woman to marry seven brothers
Luke 20:29-32
Making innocent pay for misdeeds of the guilty
Romans 5:12
Gen. 3
Josh. 27:24-26
II Sam. 12:11-14
I Sam. 6:19
Ex. 20:5
II Sam. 24:15
II Sam. 24
I Kings 17:1
Gen. 3:14-19
Making people disobey so you can punish them
Ex. 12:28-29
John 12:39-40
Romans 9:16-22
II Peter 2:9
Ezekiel 14:9
Offering your virgin daughters to perverts
Gen. 19:4-8
Revilling and abusing the sick, handicapped and deformed
II Sam. 5:8
Num. 5:2-4
Lev. 21:1-23
Sexually abusing women to death
Judges 19:25
Stoning and burning whole families, women
Joshua 7:24-26
Num. 16:35
Deut. 22:21
Lev. 21:9
Stoning a man for working on the sabbath (10 commandment punshment)
Num. 15:35-36
Stoning a youth for blasphemy (10 commandment punshment)
Lev. 24:23
Wiping out whole cities
Joshua 6
Gen. 19
Num. 21:25
Deut. 2:34

Let’s not forget the story of Noah. Every species on one boat? Have you ever been on a navel ship? Do you know how huge they are, just to hold a few hundred people? Lets not forget the sorage of food, fresh water, and the disposal of animal waist.

In that story the Christian god killed the whole world! Men, women, children, and infants. Noah’s neighbors must have begged to get on the ark, till finally their dead, bloated bodies were floating by. This is the type of thing the Christian god commands over, and over again in the bible. No big deal, because none of it is true. It’s simply mythology. Thank god! (Pun intended)

The big bang. Scientists have “Concluded” nothing of the sort. It is a theory. But…hold on…let’s clarify what a theory is, first. It is not simply a “made up” conclusion. It is a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles, based on facts, offered to explain phenomena. (Such as gravity) A theory may be refined, but only if a better explained, more logical solution is found and tested. Given all evidence, the big bang theory is the most logical explanation. Much like gravity, global warming, or evolution.

Gen: 1.1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. This is a made up conclusion. It proves, nor explains anything. That statement could have been made up by anyone who can write. No thought what-so-ever. It doesn’t even describe the big bag. If scientist had come up with “the implosion” theory, people would still say, “See! God!”

I understand the need or want for a belief in a higher power. But the book we call the bible is a horrible book and for the most part, horrible moral code. Staring with the verses I have supplied….see for your self.


Wow...I wrote WAY more than I though. I'm sorry. I'm sure we all have better things to do.

Uhhh...you think so?

There are going to be inconsistencies in any piece of literature that was simple made up by multiple authors. The Bible is nothing but meaningless poetry, impossible stories, and historical fiction.